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Thread: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

  1. #111
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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    You do realize that we helped overthrow a democratically elected government and helped install the hated Shah and our presidential candidate Ronald Reagan asked them to keep the hostages a little longer to help him win the election, right?
    Mossadeq was appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Iranian Parliament, and he was only ousted after he dissolved parliament through an Unconstitutional and fraudulent national referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote and granted himself indefinite "emergency powers" the Shah was still the legitimate head of state under the Iranian Constitution, it was not a coup it was a counter-coup.

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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    We over threw the democratically elected leader as is quoted below.
    I know that's the Chomskyite version of what happened but in reality Mossadeq was appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Iranian Parliament, and he was only ousted after he dissolved parliament through an Unconstitutional and fraudulent national referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote and granted himself indefinite "emergency powers" (some beacon of liberal democracy you have there) the Shah was still the legitimate head of state under the Iranian Constitution, it was not a coup it was a counter-coup.

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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And apparently you are unaware of the US's history of the use of terrorism to advance its "interests".

    Written in 1954 by one of the coup's chief planners, the history details how United States and British officials plotted the military coup that returned the shah of Iran to power and toppled Iran's elected prime minister, an ardent nationalist.
    Mossadeq was appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Iranian Parliament, and he was only ousted after he dissolved parliament through an Unconstitutional and fraudulent national referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote and granted himself indefinite "emergency powers" because they wouldn't give him direct control over the military (some beacon of liberal democracy you have there) the Shah was still the legitimate head of state under the Iranian Constitution, it was not a coup it was a counter-coup.

  4. #114
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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    No, it isn't the same, because the UK stopped intervening in India over ~70 years ago. We haven't stopped intervening in Iran, in fact we are doing worse than when we put a government (oppressive nonetheless) in power, not only did we punish the people with that, but we are now punishing the people by placing trade embargo on them, all because we didn't like them talking to the USSR 30 yrs ago. (Iraq vs Iran war resulted). So no, we are not like the UK as we haven't left them alone, at all.
    What embargo?
    Are you referring to the sanctions imposed on Iran due to its nuclear ambitions?
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  5. #115
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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    So when did North Korea(who has nukes) attack a city? Just because a country wants to use nuclear power does not automatically equate to "need bomba now". Nuclear is a great option for power when you are limited on other options (IE not oil/natural gas).
    North Korea withdrew from the NPT in 2003 in order to acquire nuclear weapons.

    Few have a problem with Iranian nuclear reactors that are strictly used for generating power. But nuclear weapon fabrication is illegal for Iran which signed the NPT in 1968.

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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Mossadeq was appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Iranian Parliament, and he was only ousted after he dissolved parliament through an Unconstitutional and fraudulent national referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote and granted himself indefinite "emergency powers" because they wouldn't give him direct control over the military (some beacon of liberal democracy you have there) the Shah was still the legitimate head of state under the Iranian Constitution, it was not a coup it was a counter-coup.
    Pure propaganda.

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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    I know that's the Chomskyite version of what happened but in reality Mossadeq was appointed by the Shah and ratified by the Iranian Parliament, and he was only ousted after he dissolved parliament through an Unconstitutional and fraudulent national referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote and granted himself indefinite "emergency powers" (some beacon of liberal democracy you have there) the Shah was still the legitimate head of state under the Iranian Constitution, it was not a coup it was a counter-coup.
    Yeah, that is a complete fabrication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What embargo?
    Are you referring to the sanctions imposed on Iran due to its nuclear ambitions?
    There are several restrictions still applied to Iran from the late 70s and 80s. First there are still frozen assets by EO 12170 in 1979 by Carter, second in 1984 there is a restriction on weapon sales and charitable assistance and loans, and third there is a sanction against importing and exporting goods to Iran as of 1987 EO 12613 by Regan. That is from the past 30 years ago and they are still (mostly) in effect. So we are still punishing the country for nothing more than talking with the USSR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    North Korea withdrew from the NPT in 2003 in order to acquire nuclear weapons.

    Few have a problem with Iranian nuclear reactors that are strictly used for generating power. But nuclear weapon fabrication is illegal for Iran which signed the NPT in 1968.
    That is exactly what they have been trying to do for decades and each time our fear of Iran is beyond foolish.

    Which is exactly the point, they signed the NPT treaty so if they violate it, prosecute them as you would any other country that breaks international law. Don't preemptively punish them because they wanted to deal with our so-called enemy 30+ years ago. Especially after we messed up their government so badly.
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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Pure propaganda.
    Yes you've been spouting nothing but pure propaganda and you can't contest the incontrovertible facts that I have presented. Tell me which part of my post is false. I'll be waiting with baited breath.

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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicci View Post
    Yeah, that is a complete fabrication.
    Yeah, you don't have a clue what you're talking about, get educated:

    Mosaddeq did come to power legitimately — the Shah had appointed him prime minister in 1951 under the country’s constitutional monarchy — but his continuance in power was anything but. To win re-election in 1952, Mosaddeq stopped the counting of votes midway, after most of the urban vote was in — Mosaddeq’s power base was in the cities — and before the rural votes could be counted. This “secular democrat,” as Argo describes him, then suspended parliament and ruled by emergency power, decreeing sweeping land reforms that expropriated the rural land owners and established a system of collective farming under government land ownership. To deal with objectors, Mosaddeq relied on goon squads from the Iranian Communist party.

    By 1953 his popularity was tanking — his nationalization of the oil industry, though initially popular, led to an economically ruinous international boycott that cost him support with the public and splintered his National Front party, a sprawling coalition of socialists, nationalists, workers and clergy. Looming nationalizations in transportation and communications and attempts to control food production further polarized society, with many fearing Iran would come to resemble the neighbouring Soviet Union, where an atheistic state controlled the economy and society. The final straw was a referendum Mosaddeq called to dissolve parliament, which he won with 99.9% of the vote — those who might want to vote “no” had to use separate ballot boxes, sometimes in different polling places, where voters had to provide their names, addresses, and their identity cards. Within 10 days of the referendum, the people took to the streets and Mosaddeq was deposed.


    Lawrence Solomon: Argo perpetuates myth of CIA coup | Financial Post

    By 1953, economic tensions caused by the British embargo and political turmoil began to take a major toll upon Mossadegh's popularity and political power. The people were increasingly blaming him for the economic and political crisis. Political violence was becoming widespread in the form of street clashes between rival political groups.[7][9] Mossadegh was losing popularity and support among the working class which had been his strongest supporters. As he lost support, he became more autocratic.[59][60] As early as August 1952, he began to rely on emergency powers to rule, generating controversy among his supporters.[60] After an assassination attempt upon one of his cabinet ministers and himself, he ordered the jailing of dozens of his political opponents. This act created widespread anger among much of the general public, and led to accusations that Mossadegh was becoming a dictator.[7][9] The Tudeh party's unofficial alliance with Mossadegh led to fears of communism, and increasingly it was the communists who were taking part in pro-Mossadegh rallies, and attacking opponents.[7][9]

    By mid-1953 a mass of resignations by Mossadegh's parliamentary supporters reduced the National Front seats in Parliament. A referendum to dissolve parliament and give the prime minister power to make law was submitted to voters, and it passed with 99.9 percent approval, 2,043,300 votes to 1300 votes against.[61] The referendum was widely seen by opponents as a dictatorial act, and the Shah and the rest of the government were effectively stripped of their powers to rule. When Mossadegh dissolved the Parliament, his opponents decried this act because he had effectively given himself "total power". Ironically, this seemingly un-democratic act by a democratically elected prime minister would result in a chain of events leading to his downfall.[7][9]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir..._d%27%C3%A9tat
    Last edited by face, your; 04-21-15 at 01:02 PM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Putin has no right to lecture anyone about arms sales. Russian weapons have devastated Syria.


    It would have been a simple police action had Putin not sent Russian forces and arms into eastern Ukraine.


    Many went to Russia because it's less than an hour drive away and Ukraine wasn't invading Russia.
    But the US has the right to supply 80% of the worlds arms?

    The people in the East didn't like the government in Kiev. No reason for a police action in the first place.

    They went to Russia, because most were Russian speaking people. If they went west, there was nothing for them. What about the Ukraine soldiers that defected to Russia.
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