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Thread: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

  1. #451
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Well given it was spent in the Masai Mara and Tsavo East national parks on the TWICE I've visited then yes I do. And I didn't kill a thing doing it either



    BS as my post #446 illustrated
    Even if your propaganda site is true. Hunters continually service the park year after year dropping siginifcant money. 30,000 bucks, 3% is still almost a grand. Did you contribute a grand directly? That's one hunt, how many are there per year?

    So what are you doing to help out? You went on vacation, great! But what else, other than a vacation, are you doing to help curtail these legal hunts? To contribute to the conservation of these animals? Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Your hypocrisy is breathtaking given having contributed nothing yourself you feel you are in a position to criticise others who have
    There's no hypocrisy. I'm just pointing out that while you're sitting there being all mad bro at these hunters, that they're actually doing more for conservation than you are. You want to protect these animals, then go do it. Do something. It's easy to sit there and talk about your vacation you had and how the animals are great and oh how they should be protected. But you don't do anything to help protect them, and then you have the gall to wish for the DEATH of a human because she hunts.

    Talk about morally bankrupt. Sloth is no way to accomplish a goal. Why don't you take a break from your keyboard warrior arguments and do something about the problem? Or is bitching about other people and wishing for their deaths about the only thing that you can manage to accomplish here?

    Oh, and here:

    http://conservationmagazine.org/2014...-conservation/

    It’s encouraging that trophy hunters seem willing to take conservation-related issues into consideration when choosing a tour operator, but it is possible that they were simply providing the researchers with the answers that would cast them in the best light. That’s a typical concern for assessments that rely on self-report. Better evidence would come from proof that hunting can be consistent with actual, measurable conservation-related benefits for a species.

    Is there such evidence? According to a 2005 paper by Nigel Leader-Williams and colleagues in the Journal of International Wildlife Law and Policy the answer is yes. Leader-Williams describes how the legalization of white rhinoceros hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to reintroduce the species onto their lands. As a result, the country saw an increase in white rhinos from fewer than one hundred individuals to more than 11,000, even while a limited number were killed as trophies.

    In a 2011 letter to Science magazine, Leader-Williams also pointed out that the implementation of controlled, legalized hunting was also beneficial for Zimbabwe’s elephants. “Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.” It is important to note, however, that the removal of mature elephant males can have other, detrimental consequences on the psychological development of younger males. And rhinos and elephants are very different animals, with different needs and behaviors.
    Last edited by Ikari; 04-24-15 at 11:18 AM.
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  2. #452
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Even if your propaganda site is true.
    National Geographic confirms it, or is that just another propaganda site too ?

    Opinion: Why Are We Still Hunting Lions?

    Trophy hunting is also counter-evolutionary, as it's based on selectively taking the large, robust, and healthy males from a population for a hunter's trophy room. These are the same crucial individuals that in a natural system would live long, full lives, protecting their mates and cubs and contributing their genes to future generations.

    Despite the wild claims that trophy hunting brings millions of dollars in revenue to local people in otherwise poor communities, there is no proof of this. Even pro-hunting organizations like the International Council for Game and Wildlife Conservation have reported that only 3 percent of revenue from trophy hunting ever makes it to the communities affected by hunting. The rest goes to national governments or foreign-based outfitters.

    Hunters continually service the park year after year dropping siginifcant money. 30,000 bucks, 3% is still almost a grand. Did you contribute a grand directly? That's one hunt, how many are there per year?
    The far larger non lethal tourist market doesn't pay to see dead animals

    So what are you doing to help out? You went on vacation, great!
    Yes it was thanks. I'm sure my money and that of the millions of others like me help keep the entire Kenyan economy afloat each year. Once your lot stop helping to empty the Savannahs for future tourists to enjoy it will doubtless do better still

    But what else, other than a vacation, are you doing to help curtail these legal hunts? To contribute to the conservation of these animals? Anything
    Well a lot more than you have already

    There's no hypocrisy.
    I'm not the one attempting to defend the indefensible
    Last edited by flogger; 04-24-15 at 11:29 AM.

  3. #453
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    National Geographic confirms it, or is that just another propaganda site too ?

    Opinion: Why Are We Still Hunting Lions?

    Trophy hunting is also counter-evolutionary, as it's based on selectively taking the large, robust, and healthy males from a population for a hunter's trophy room. These are the same crucial individuals that in a natural system would live long, full lives, protecting their mates and cubs and contributing their genes to future generations.

    Despite the wild claims that trophy hunting brings millions of dollars in revenue to local people in otherwise poor communities, there is no proof of this. Even pro-hunting organizations like the International Council for Game and Wildlife Conservation have reported that only 3 percent of revenue from trophy hunting ever makes it to the communities affected by hunting. The rest goes to national governments or foreign-based outfitters.



    The far larger non lethal tourist market doesn't pay to see dead animals



    Yes it was thanks. I'm sure my money and that of the millions of others like me help keep the entire Kenyan economy afloat each year. Once your lot stop helping to empty the Savannahs for future tourists to enjoy it will doubtless do better still



    Well a lot more than you have already



    I'm not the one attempting to defend the indefensible
    That's an OPINION article written last year, mine is a study written this year. There's a difference between OPINION and STUDY.

    I'm not defending the indefensible, you are wishing for the deaths of humans because they hunt. That is indefensible. You go on vacation and claim that you are helping out, but the numbers (again STUDY, not OPINION) show that facilities and populations can be upheld and expanded through the inclusion of limited, regulated trophy hunting.

    You refuse all data, you refuse all evidence. You cite nothing but opinion and try to claim some moral superiority, but that evaporates the minute you wish for the deaths of human beings.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  4. #454
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Something I've always wondered is why hunters wear t-shirts depicting living animals. Is it that they imagine how cool it would be to shoot it? Sincerely curious.

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's an OPINION article written last year, mine is a study written this year. There's a difference between OPINION and STUDY.
    Wrong it was citing a 2013 report by the Council for Game and Wildlife Conservation

    I'm not defending the indefensible, you are wishing for the deaths of humans because they hunt. That is indefensible.
    I'm wishing for them to just stop comitting these disgusting and cowardly acts against ever diminishing African wildlife

    You go on vacation and claim that you are helping out, but the numbers (again STUDY, not OPINION) show that facilities and populations can be upheld and expanded through the inclusion of limited, regulated trophy hunting.
    According to the same report only 1.8% of tourist revenues to sub Saharan Africa are generated by trophy hunters. What damage their hideous pursuit is doing to the other 98.2% is open to debate but emptying the area of its wildlife can hardly be conducive

  6. #456
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Wrong it was citing a 2013 report by the Council for Game and Wildlife Conservation



    I'm wishing for them to just stop comitting these disgusting acts



    According to the same report only 1.8% of tourist revenues to sub Saharan Africa are generated by trophy hunters. What damage their hideous pursuit is doing to the other 98.2% is open to debate but emptying the area of its wildlife can hardly be conducive
    What damage are they doing?

    a 2000 report from TRAFFIC, an organization that works with the WWF, IUCN, and CITES to track the international trade of wildlife, describes how Namibia alone was the site of almost 16,000 trophy hunts that year. Those 16,000 animals represent a wide variety of species – birds, reptiles, mammals, and even primates – both endangered and not. They include four of the so-called “big five” popular African game: lion, Cape buffalo, leopard, and rhinoceros. (Only the elephant was missing.) The hunters brought eleven million US dollars with them to spend in the Namibian economy. And that doesn’t include revenue from non-trophy recreational hunting activities, which are limited to four species classified as of “least concern” by the IUCN: Greater Kudu, Gemsbok, Springbok and Warthog.
    You mean bringing in eleven million US dollars? Or

    745 rhinos were killed due to illegal poaching in 2012 in Africa, which amounts to approximately two rhinos each day, mostly for their horns. In South Africa alone, 461 rhinos were killed in just the first half of 2013. Rhino horns are valued for their medicinal uses and for their supposed cancer-curing powers. Of course, rhino horns have no pharmacological value at all, making their harvest even more tragic. The five non-breeding rhinos that Namibia allows to be hunted each year seem paltry in comparison, especially since they are older males who can no longer contribute to population growth.
    The 5 rhinos that are past reproduction age that they hunt? Or

    “Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.”
    The ability for preserves to manage increased land areas that also helps prevent poaching? Those damages?

    Where's the 1.3% number come from in your OPINION piece?

    Let me show you the difference between you OPINION piece and the STUDY I listed

    Leader-Williams N., Milledge S., Adcock K., Brooks M., Conway A., Knight M., Mainka S., Martin E.B. & Teferi T. (2005). Trophy Hunting of Black Rhino: Proposals to Ensure Its Future Sustainability, Journal of International Wildlife Law & Policy, 8 (1) 1-11. DOI: 10.1080/13880290590913705

    Lindsey P.A., Alexander R., Frank L.G., Mathieson A. & Romanach S.S. (2006). Potential of trophy hunting to create incentives for wildlife conservation in Africa where alternative wildlife-based land uses may not be viable, Animal Conservation, 9 (3) 283-291. DOI: 10.1111/j.1469-1795.2006.00034.x

    Leader-Williams N. Elephant Hunting and Conservation, Science, 293 (5538) 2203b-2204. DOI: 10.1126/science.293.5538.2203b
    See that? Those are called sources. Those are peer-reviewed scientific studies. What does your OPINION piece have?

    Again, you wish for the death of human beings based on nothing more than your opinion and you cannot counter any of the measured facts. Sick to go so far as to wish death on others because of your holier than thou crusade that you won't even get up off of your computer to significantly contribute to.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What damage are they doing?
    Good grief !!

    You mean bringing in eleven million US dollars? Or
    Threatening the $ 18 BILLION tourist dollars spent annually by people coming to view the living wildlife is not a good idea

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_tourism_by_country


    The 5 rhinos that are past reproduction age that they hunt? Or
    Do you think tourists on Safari holiday are going to care about the reproductive age of the live Rhino they are watching ?

    The ability for preserves to manage increased land areas that also helps prevent poaching? Those damages?
    By all means let those big hearted trophy hunting conservationists send their money to pay for many extra game wardens to help police that poaching

  8. #458
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Threatening the $ 18 BILLION tourist dollars spent annually by people coming to view the living wildlife is not a good idea

    African tourism by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    How are they threatening it? These legal hunts work in coordination with conservation methods. If anything, they are PROTECTING it. You haven't been able to state anything with verifiable fact that these hunts, which are limited and extremely regulated, are causing collapse of species populations. Those are ASSUMPTIONS you are making. Where's the facts? Also, how much of that 18 billion go to conservation programs?

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Do you think tourists on Safari holiday are going to care about the reproductive age of the live Rhino they are watching ?
    No, which is why this won't matter at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    By all means let those big hearted trophy hunting conservationists send their money to pay for many extra game wardens to help police that poaching
    They already do, done deal. Millions of dollars and greatly expanded preservers all due to big game hunters.

    So you're calling for the death of humans for their positive effects on conservation methods. Sounds pretty sick, IMO.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #459
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How are they threatening it? These legal hunts work in coordination with conservation methods. If anything, they are PROTECTING it. You haven't been able to state anything with verifiable fact that these hunts, which are limited and extremely regulated, are causing collapse of species populations. Those are ASSUMPTIONS you are making. Where's the facts? Also, how much of that 18 billion go to conservation programs?
    Conservation my back side. To give just and example of that hypocrisy. The auction of black Rhino kills last year

    Despite the Dallas Safari Clubs 's effort to pass off the rhino auction as a conservation initiative, they have since hinted that they will withdraw their conservation funding pledge if they are denied a permit to bring the trophy from the hunt back to the U.S., thereby stripping away the conservation rhetoric and showing it to be merely the blood-sport safari that most people suspected it always was.


    Stop senseless trophy hunting | IFAW - International Fund for Animal Welfare

    They already do, done deal. Millions of dollars and greatly expanded preservers all due to big game hunters.
    Threatening the tens of billions of tourist dollars so that a few cowards can decimate rare African wildlife even further in order to massage their ego's is not a good way to go for either the animals or the countries involved

    So you're calling for the death of humans for their positive effects on conservation methods. Sounds pretty sick, IMO.
    I'm calling for the banning of the disgusting practice trophy hunting in Africa
    Last edited by flogger; 04-24-15 at 12:43 PM.

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post



    I'm calling for the banning of the disgusting practice trophy hunting in Africa
    Count me in.

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