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Thread: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

  1. #181
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    They are not "They are nearly as smart as we are" not even close. They are intelligent as far as animals go, but this does not afford them "human" status.
    They are a lot smarter than you realize then. For example if an elephant wants to disable an electric fence, they don't typically just break the fence, they find the fence charger and destroy it. I am not saying they should have the right to vote, but they sure as hell ought to enjoy the right to live their life unless they are a clear danger to humans.

    The Science Is In: Elephants Are Even Smarter Than We Realized [Video] - Scientific American
    Elephant cognition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No country propers by destroying its ecosystem.
    Really? I would dispute that statement.
    Its every bit as much interest for the poor farmer to protect their elephants as it is for anyone else.
    well clearly it's not otherwise they would be assisting the police and prosecuting poachers or not poaching them themselves
    Moreover, a dog is simply not comparable to an elephant in terms of intelligence or emotional capability.
    Purely a subjective standard only you understand.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No country propers by destroying its ecosystem. Its every bit as much interest for the poor farmer to protect their elephants as it is for anyone else. Moreover, a dog is simply not comparable to an elephant in terms of intelligence or emotional capability.
    And the best way to do that is to give the animal an economic value. In countries where the number of elephants exceeds the local range's carrying capacity, that economic value means managed game hunts employing locals and spending cash on the local economy.

    As for elephants are more intelligent than dogs, I dont buy it. We, of course, routinely euthanize dogs here every day.

  4. #184
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    That is your opinion, I think he hunts an endangered species (vulnerable with some sources saying the animal could be wiped out in the wild in 10 years or so) and that makes him not deserving of my empathy for loosing his life while hunting elephants. I do not wish death upon him and I am sorry if his death has been painful, but the only ones I feel sorry for is his family.

    You may not agree with that but that is the great thing of humanity, we can agree to disagree. I would have wished he had not died but I do not feel sorry for him now that he has died during the hunting of an elephant.
    It is my opinion. Animals are different from humans and I wouldn't put one above a human. But I'm a humanitarian, and believe all human life has value even people who do things I don't like.

    Also, I think a lot of this big game hunts involve animals that were bred for the big game hunts. Not sure if this is one of those cases, but they do raise animals for this.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    crime-psychobabble much? its not a crime just because a left wing american thinks it is

    You can mock me all you want-I just laugh at Bambistas who are clueless about other countries and their natural resources
    No, it is a crime, just like many things that once were legal and have finally been recognized for what they were. And killing an animal that is on the endangered list just for sport is a crime. There's nothing political about it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    You're being a bit righteous IMO. I'm not cheering his death but I don't lament it either. It's called non-attachment. You engage in a high risk sport and you could die. I don't care to partake in the veneration of some human who I don't even know and have zero loyalty toward.

    It just also so happens that I find trophy elephant hunting to be outdated and immoral, regardless if it's legal or not. The ivory trade is fueled by selfish morons who are part of the era that believes in the prestige of ivory ownership. Zero respect for that, and one less hunter on planet earth is one more protection for the elephants who are by most measure quite sentient and did not ask to be attacked. If a rape victim managed to kill their attacker I wouldn't shed a tear over that either.

    So yeah, nitpick over how immoral we all are for not getting down on our knees and balling because some old fogey hunter finally got his karmic reward for all the pain he has caused wild animals. I would not mourn whalers, Alaskan fishermen, or anyone else either. People's choices lead to consequences and that's not my problem.

    But I guess whatever makes you feel like the homo superior.
    It's OK to not have empathy for your fellow man, well maybe not "OK" per say, but it happens quite a lot. Some put animals above humans, but as a humanitarian I place value in all human life, even this guy. This had nothing to do with the ivory trade, so that's just deflection towards an appeal to emotion; though most of your argument here is just that. But yes, we get it. This guy got what he deserved, go elephant.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    umm,the science has been in for decades and decades...it works and there's no getting around that.

    listen, coming to a science fight armed with tears and emotions doesn't mean it's an actual debate...it's not.
    sometimes it sucks when our emotions get in the way of doing the right thing, but we're humans, and that's how we roll sometimes...

    again, focus on the folks who do damage... poachers.
    Poachers are a whole other subject, not the focus of the op which is about a hunter killed by a smart elephant because it didn't want to die! These elephants are endangered, which doesn't mean they should have the extra pressure of being hunted now.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #188
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Really? I would dispute that statement. well clearly it's not otherwise they would be assisting the police and prosecuting poachers or not poaching them themselves

    Purely a subjective standard only you understand.
    People commonly don't do what is in their own interest or their country's interest, that same farmer might mutilate his daughters genitals or try to maintain more cows than he can afford simply out of status. However, if he is just making a dollar a day it will be pretty cheap to compensate him for his loss.

    Look I realize that there are conflicts between elephants and humans in Africa and obviously the elephant is going to be on the losing end of most of the conflicts. However, I don't think the knee jerk reaction should be its just another animal just kill it as though it were deer in your backyard eating your roses.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #189
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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Those articles are true for Africa as a whole, but false for individual countries. Some African countries (South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, and possibly Zimbabwe) have very sustainable herds that need to be culled.

    Though most of the people doing the culling (wealthy game hunters) have pleasant personalities, their numbers undoubtably include a few wealthy jerks. That does not detract from the money that they spend locally, nor does it detract from the needed culling they provide. Likewise alot of eco tourism attract wealthy customers. Undoubtably, their numbers include a few wealthy jerks as well- just with a different socio poltical spin.
    According to the Elephant Database, which receives reports from the International Union for Conservation of Natural African Elephant Specialist Group, a network of governments and nonprofits, there were 47,366 elephants in Zimbabwe in 2012, down from 84,416 in 2007. Rodrigues said that the Great Elephant Census, a project led by Paul G. Allen, the American philanthropist, to calculate the number of elephants in the southern African region by 2016, had counted about 20,000 elephants so far in the past year.
    For Elephants in Zimbabwe, a Deeply Troubling Present and Future | passblue

    This does not sound like culling but this sounds like massacring the elephants, in 7 years the number seems to have gone down by 37,000, the elephants in that region cannot survive another 7 years like

    The herald of New Zealand has a piece on this hunt in Zimbabwe Jumbo population down 40pc | The Herald

    Where it is written:

    The national survey of Elephants in Zimbabwe: preliminary 2014 results show that elephant numbers have decreased by about 75% in the combined Matusadona and Chizarira areas.
    toward that end the tactics and the strategies that people resort to in carrying out this ideologically driven agenda of what they call “pro-life” which is really pro-fetus does not have anything to do with the lives of babies after they’re born or the women who bear them.

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    Re: Game Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

    For most the pure exhilaration of being out and about in an area controlled completely by the native animal population is something that will never be experienced. I'm not a big game hunting advocate. However, being out and about in Africa is something unforgettable. It's definitely not for most people. Too bad this fellow died, but he knew the risks. That's why he was there.

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