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Thread: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    There are 200 Canadian trainers now in Ukraine also. Still way behind the number of Russian specialists in DNR/LNR.

    Interesting exposé about how the Russian 5th Tank Brigade participated at Debaltsevo in February. The 5th is normally stationed in Buryatskaya Oblast which borders Mongolia. The soldiers in the pics sure don't look Ukrainian.

    5-я танковая бригда ВС РФ в боях за Дебальцево
    Putin has evidently been recruiting hard amongst ethnic minorities, who are probably more willing to sign over seas deployment contracts due to proverty.

    One piece of good news is that an ethnic Siberian political figure has encouraged local officials not to cooperate with Russian mercenary recruiters and has encouraged Siberians already serving in the Russian army not to sign deployment contracts. The bad news is that it will take a long time for any ethnic "refusenik" momentum to build.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Putin has evidently been recruiting hard amongst ethnic minorities, who are probably more willing to sign over seas deployment contracts due to proverty.
    These were Russian soldiers (120) and tanks (31) of the 5th Tank Brigade transported by train from Ulan-Ude to Rostov. They crossed the border and entered Ukraine in February. They fought at Debaltsevo. The Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta published a rare interview with one of the 5th tankers in a Rostov hospital. Dorji Batomunkuev (military unit № 46108 / military ID 2609999) was severely injured in the battle of Debaltseve.

    «Мы все знали, на что идем и что может быть»

    Russian units in Donbass as of today: 15th Brigade (2nd Army), 8th Infantry Brigade, 331st Paratrooper Regiment (98th Paratroopers Division).

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I can imagine how indignant and apoplectic the US government would be if Russian troops were training Mexican or Canadian troops.
    Really? Have any of the coutries you mentioned invaded their neighbours?
    Russians are paying a HUGE price for their stupidity. Russia is one of the few countries in the world where the living standard is dropping! And is dropping from a fairly low level already. OK Putin is rolling in money. He gives **** about the man in the street.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    These were Russian soldiers (120) and tanks (31) of the 5th Tank Brigade transported by train from Ulan-Ude to Rostov. They crossed the border and entered Ukraine in February. They fought at Debaltsevo. The Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta published a rare interview with one of the 5th tankers in a Rostov hospital. Dorji Batomunkuev (military unit № 46108 / military ID 2609999) was severely injured in the battle of Debaltseve.

    «Мы все знали, на что идем и что может быть»

    Russian units in Donbass as of today: 15th Brigade (2nd Army), 8th Infantry Brigade, 331st Paratrooper Regiment (98th Paratroopers Division).
    Russian as in slavic, or Russian as in citizen of the Russian Federation? Though there are plenty of slavic Russians in the Donbass, there are a disproportionate number of ethnic minorities as well. Russian Regular units in Ukraine seem to be two types:

    - A. Those operating as full and complete professional units.
    - B. Those operating as cadre units where officers and senior NCOs are proffessional, but the men are a variety of recent volunteers, "volunteers" and mercenaries.

    I think most Russian regular units are "B" type.

    This is probably due to many factors including a desire to preserve the small number of truly modernized / well trained Russian brigades for future use or strategic detterance, and an increasing reluctance of Russian conscripts to sign coerced deployment contracts. In addition, Fallen Angel has pointed out that Putin is does not have absolute authority in Russia. Some senior russian commanders might not be backing Putin and could well have quietly made some fully trained units "unavailable" for Donbass deployments.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Oh, the weeping and gnashing of teeth...

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I can imagine how indignant and apoplectic the US government would be if Russian troops were training Mexican or Canadian troops.
    Not even a close comparison. Actually quite absurd.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Russian as in slavic, or Russian as in citizen of the Russian Federation? Though there are plenty of slavic Russians in the Donbass, there are a disproportionate number of ethnic minorities as well. Russian Regular units in Ukraine seem to be two types:

    - A. Those operating as full and complete professional units.
    - B. Those operating as cadre units where officers and senior NCOs are proffessional, but the men are a variety of recent volunteers, "volunteers" and mercenaries.

    I think most Russian regular units are "B" type.

    This is probably due to many factors including a desire to preserve the small number of truly modernized / well trained Russian brigades for future use or strategic detterance, and an increasing reluctance of Russian conscripts to sign coerced deployment contracts. In addition, Fallen Angel has pointed out that Putin is does not have absolute authority in Russia. Some senior russian commanders might not be backing Putin and could well have quietly made some fully trained units "unavailable" for Donbass deployments.
    What difference does it make? They were still Russian troops and equipment that crossed the border of a sovereign country.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    What difference does it make? They were still Russian troops and equipment that crossed the border of a sovereign country.
    There is no difference in regards to the Donbass. Rather, it is just an observation that the Russians appear to be keeping alot of their best units in reserve, for a variety of reasons.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Russian as in slavic, or Russian as in citizen of the Russian Federation?
    Do you know where Ulan-Ude is? It is in central Siberia just above Mongolia. Buryats are not Slavic Russians. The Russian military 5th Tank Brigade is stationed there and the majority of 5th conscripts are ethnically Buryati.

    They were shipped from Ulan Ude to Rostov by train. Since Russian soldiers lawfully cannot be in Ukraine, the soldiers are placed on administrative leave but are forced to sign a temporary contract which legally defines them as Kontraktniki (mercenaries). Thus they are technically (from the Russian legal perspective) contract mercenaries in Ukraine. When they cross the border back into Russia, their contract is terminated and administrative leave is cancelled and they are legally Russian conscript soldiers again and shipped back to their headquarters at Ulan-Ude. It works the same with all Russian military units sent into Ukraine.

    This is one facet of Russia's hybrid warfare that is being waged in eastern Ukraine.

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    Re: U.S. military trainers in Ukraine may destabilize situation: Kremlin

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Do you know where Ulan-Ude is? It is in central Siberia just above Mongolia. Buryats are not Slavic Russians. The Russian military 5th Tank Brigade is stationed there and the majority of 5th conscripts are ethnically Buryati.

    They were shipped from Ulan Ude to Rostov by train. Since Russian soldiers lawfully cannot be in Ukraine, the soldiers are placed on administrative leave but are forced to sign a temporary contract which legally defines them as Kontraktniki (mercenaries). Thus they are technically (from the Russian legal perspective) contract mercenaries in Ukraine.
    Putin also attempted to strong arm a slavic conscript unit (strategic SAM) from Murmansk area with a sudden conversion into an infantry unit and coerced contracts. Several hundred slavics refused. My guess is that slavic Russians have more options employment wise and are therefore more likely to "just say no". Putin then went shopping for units from impovershed areas which are moe likely to be ethnic minority. The fact that the slavics from Murmansk were not just sent anyways despite their refusal could indicate that Putin is not in absolute control of the situation.

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