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Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... And Th

Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

joG said:
Actually the "distortion" of religion has come about in the degree of acceptance of what has traditionally been interpreted as severe and deadly sin. It is the gay or abortion movements that are aberrant in that respect, whether you are partial to such acts or not.
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It's true that homosexuality is a sin...in Christianity. I don't know why a mechanic should worry about it, though.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Hatuey said:
Jerry, read the title and get back to me. It is in fact about gays.
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Apparently the participants in this thread have decided to make it about much more than gays.

Hatuey said:
Then leave them outside the shop for 5 mins, Jerry.
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No.

Hatuey said:
The same applies for guns.
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Really just leave the gun sitting outside the shop on the sidewalk for 5 minutes, huh?

Hatuey said:
Can someone leave skin color and sexual orientation outside for 5 mins while the person goes in for a 5 minute visit? No.
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Irrelevant.

Hatuey said:
Your marital problems don't really concern me. What I do know are your positions on homosexuality. They're not exactly friendly to them. :shrug:
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That's why I fully support gays serving openly in the military, gays adopting, gays getting married, because I'm so inhospitable towards gays. rrriiiiggghhhT.

Hatuey said:
Actually, business owners have a responsibility to ensure the safety of their customers. If they feel guns threaten the safety of their customers, they are more than allowed to ban them because a gun owner can leave their weapon at home or any number of places.
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Businesses are also allowed to ban gays. Shoot yourself in the foot again. You see, OP's story is about what should be the rule, not what is the rule.

Hatuey said:
Likewise, businesses that restrict the entry of children usually do so because of the content of their merchandise. Others are allowed to do so because they provide services which minors can't legally access.
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The buisness or the child would suffer a harm, right, that's what I've been saying. If there's a harm then there's a valid reason. "Feelings" are not a valid reason.

Hatuey said:
Again, nobody here is discussing discrimination itself but discrimination of a group of people based on a trait they can't in any sense of the word distance themselves from.
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If that's true then I don't know why people are bringing up race. This thread is about businesses discriminating.

Hatuey said:
You can't stop being gay for 5 mins while you go in the store. You can't leave gayness in a car. You can't leave gayness with a babysitter. You can't even tie it to a parking meter while you go about your business. So no matter how hard you try, Jerry, they're not the same thing.
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Being black and being Muslim are not the same thing, either, but you can't discriminate against them. So once again: irrelevant.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry said:
Apparently the participants in this thread have decided to make it about much more than gays.
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Still doesn't change what the thread is about. Discrimination of gays. In any case, deciding you don't want guns in your establishment and discriminating against gay is not the same thing. :shrug:

No.
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Too bad, business owners can deny service to gun owners as there is no right to open carry, and guns can in fact be left at home. :shrug:

Really just leave the gun sitting outside the shop on the sidewalk for 5 minutes, huh?
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Nope, you can leave it at home. Nothing is forcing you to carry it with you into the store.

Irrelevant.
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It's entirely relevant as that is one of the reasons why some forms of discrimination are acceptable/legal/justified and others are not.

That's why I fully support gays serving openly in the military, gays adopting, gays getting married, because I'm so inhospitable towards gays. rrriiiiggghhhT.
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Jerry, you've called homosexuality a birth defect, you've defended state bans on gay marriage, you've compared homosexuals wanting to get married - to incest. Pretending that you don't hold homophobic positions at this point is a bit late in the race isn't it? :lol:

Businesses are also allowed to ban gays. Shoot yourself in the foot again. You see, OP's story is about what should be the rule, not what is the rule.

The buisness or the child would suffer a harm, right, that's what I've been saying. If there's a harm then there's a valid reason. "Feelings" are not a valid reason.
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Jerry, continuing to compare gays to people you bring along for the ride, won't change the fact that they're not the same.

If that's true then I don't know why people are bringing up race. This thread is about businesses discriminating.

Being black and being muslum are not the same thing, either, but you can't discriminate against them. So once again: irrelevant.
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Jerry, that's kind of the point. You can't leave any of those things at home just like a person can't leave their sexual orientation at home. That's why it's illegal to discriminate against them. Why are you so against extending the same benefits that religious people and races get to homosexuals? Why do you insist on comparing them to guns or children? No matter how hard you try, the comparisons simply don't match up. :shrug:
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Hatuey said:
Still doesn't change what the thread is about. Discrimination of gays.
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"Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers"

Subject. Verb. Object. Basic sentence structure, brought to you by literacy 101.

The subject of this thread is the Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner. Interchanging objects is how we explore a subject, this is why people are bringing up the banning of various different things. Another poster in this thread also changed the verb, arguing that someone should open a repair shop and cater to gays. This thread is not about gays or gay rights, but the Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner.

Hatuey said:
Jerry, you've called homosexuality a birth defect...
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If you're otherwise functional I see no reason why you should be barred from military service, marriage, or adoption, just because you have a birth defect. Born homosexuality, as distinguished from a sex-related stress disorder, is a birth defect caused by a hormone imbalance during pregnancy resulting in one's brain interpreting pheromones as if it were the opposite sex. That doesn't mean a gay person should be blocked from a happy and productive life.

Hatuey said:
...you've defended state bans on gay marriage...
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When those bans are enacted by ballot measure, yes. Amendment 10 sends marriage to the states to decide for themselves, so when a people decide, that's should be the final word until another ballot measure repeals it. My state has such a ban and they did it without my vote. I've never voted in favor of a SSM ban.

Hatuey said:
...you've compared homosexuals wanting to get married - to incest...
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The "freedom to choose who you love" argument favors incest as much as it favors anything else. It's a failed argument.

Hatuey said:
You can't leave any of those things at home just like a person can't leave their sexual orientation at home.
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Irrelevant.
 
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Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry said:
Either let businesses discriminate as they please and stfu about it, or, don't let businesses discriminate against anyone. There should be one standard that everyone has to play by.
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Request denied.

We will continue to pick and choose which forms of discrimination to allow and which to forbid.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

sangha said:
Request denied.

We will continue to pick and choose which forms of discrimination to allow and which to forbid.
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Coin the phrase "always carry, never tell".

It's hard to find pity for people who suffer less discrimination than I do, thus my indifference to gays.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry said:
Coin the phrase "always carry, never tell".

It's hard to find pity for people who suffer less discrimination than I do, thus my indifference to gays.
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I am indifferent to your difficulties
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry said:
It's true that homosexuality is a sin...in Christianity. I don't know why a mechanic should worry about it, though.
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Maybe he is Christian. At least, I think mechanics can be both. Or are you saying that they cannot handle that much at once? ;)
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry said:
Right, because the only possible way to give anyone money is through a gofundme page :roll:
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It makes it much easier. Don't ya think?
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Kobie said:
Of course he doesn't. Guns are more important.
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:lamo
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

American said:
Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... And That's Legal


Oh boy, more contraversy. I think there are lots of guns in Michigan, so business will likely boom. No pun intended.
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I am not a fan of boycotts but I hope this guy is run out of business by boycotting him so hard he will feel like the worlds greatest idiot for saying what he did about gays.

And if that does not work I would go and crowdfund me a company with the express business plan of running this guy out of business by opening a repair shop across the road from him and do everything he does for half the prize. But that would be me if I had money to burn ;)
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

chromium said:
I'm glad this is in michigan, so i can demonstrate precisely how this "RFRA" crap would work here.

Let's say he moved or opened shop in ann arbor or detroit, and then he made this statement. The minute he discriminated against someone gay, he would be sued and lose. That's because those cities, unlike grandville, have anti discrimination laws.

Now let's say "RFRA" passed in michigan, which very nearly happened in december, and until the backlash in indiana, appeared certain it would pass. Now even being in ann arbor or detroit, there's no recourse for a gay person simply wanting their car repaired.

This also impresses the need for a state/nationwide anti discrimination law
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That's actually a lie because it presumes that this mechanic would be the only auto mechanic in Ann Arbor or Detroit
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Deuce said:
Already closed, actually. Gofundme has been bailing on idiots like this one.
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How much did he get?
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Blemonds said:
How much did he get?
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Nothing. They canceled it.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Blemonds said:
That's actually a lie because it presumes that this mechanic would be the only auto mechanic in Ann Arbor or Detroit
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Not necessarily. If my car broke down and I had it towed to the nearest shop and it happened to be his then I would have no recourse but to endure the expense of having it towed to a different shop.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

CriticalThought said:
Not necessarily. If my car broke down and I had it towed to the nearest shop and it happened to be his then I would have no recourse but to endure the expense of having it towed to a different shop.
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The claim was that the customer has no recourse. I claimed that was a lie then you, in an effort to demonstrate it is not a lie, proved that the customer does indeed have recourse. You unwittingly proved me right, and for that I thank you
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Blemonds said:
The claim was that the customer has no recourse. I claimed that was a lie then you, in an effort to demonstrate it is not a lie, proved that the customer does indeed have recourse. You unwittingly proved me right, and for that I thank you
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Actually, causing undue expense is grounds in court for a discrimination suit.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

roughdraft274 said:
It makes it much easier. Don't ya think?
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Not relay, no. There are dozens of sister services like chipin, and one could always just mail him money.
 
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Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

joG said:
Maybe he is Christian. At least, I think mechanics can be both. Or are you saying that they cannot handle that much at once? ;)
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If he's not the gay customer's priest then it's not for him to worry about.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

sangha said:
Nonsense. The laws in other states are the business of people in other places.
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Anyone is free to criticize or condemn another state's law, of course. But it is basic to the system of government the Constitution designs that states are sovereigns, and no one outside a state has authority to dictate to its residents what laws and policies they must make.

The readiness to scold and meddle in the business of people in other states is part of a general impulse statists have to centralize government--a totalitarian bent. It it anything but liberal, and it shows a disregard of individual liberties that is un-American to the core.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

matchlight said:
Anyone is free to criticize or condemn another state's law, of course. But it is basic to the system of government the Constitution designs that states are sovereigns, and no one outside a state has authority to dictate to its residents what laws and policies they must make.

The readiness to scold and meddle in the business of people in other states is part of a general impulse statists have to centralize government--a totalitarian bent. It it anything but liberal, and it shows a disregard of individual liberties that is un-American to the core.
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I don't think you know what "totalitarian" means.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

matchlight said:
Anyone is free to criticize or condemn another state's law, of course.
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True, but that's not what I said.

But it is basic to the system of government the Constitution designs that states are sovereigns, and no one outside a state has authority to dictate to its residents what laws and policies they must make.
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True, but that's not what you said. You said that it's not the business of people who live outside the state. The post of yours that I responded to said nothing about out of staters having any authority, so my response had nothing to do with authority

The readiness to scold and meddle in the business of people in other states is part of a general impulse statists have to centralize government--a totalitarian bent. It it anything but liberal, and it shows a disregard of individual liberties that is un-American to the core.
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The laws of other states *are* literally my business and I will meddle as much as I choose to. The authoritarian statists on the right might prefer to have the state use force to silence me, but the constitution guarantees me the right to be involved in the making of laws in other states. Your distaste for my exercising my constitutional rights is an example of the rights hatred of individual liberty and is un-american.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry said:
"Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers"

Subject. Verb. Object. Basic sentence structure, brought to you by literacy 101.

The subject of this thread is the Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner. Interchanging objects is how we explore a subject, this is why people are bringing up the banning of various different things. Another poster in this thread also changed the verb, arguing that someone should open a repair shop and cater to gays. This thread is not about gays or gay rights, but the Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner.
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Jerry, you can try as much as you want to change it but the subject of discussion is the discrimination of gays. If you don't like it, may I suggest you go elsewhere? :shrug: :shrug:

If you're otherwise functional I see no reason why you should be barred from military service, marriage, or adoption, just because you have a birth defect. Born homosexuality, as distinguished from a sex-related stress disorder, is a birth defect caused by a hormone imbalance during pregnancy resulting in one's brain interpreting pheromones as if it were the opposite sex. That doesn't mean a gay person should be blocked from a happy and productive life.

When those bans are enacted by ballot measure, yes. Amendment 10 sends marriage to the states to decide for themselves, so when a people decide, that's should be the final word until another ballot measure repeals it. My state has such a ban and they did it without my vote. I've never voted in favor of a SSM ban.

The "freedom to choose who you love" argument favors incest as much as it favors anything else. It's a failed argument.
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Jerry, your positions are homophobic. Building up on them won't change that fact. :shrug:

Irrelevant.
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Of course it is completely relevant as that is what legitimizes the ban against guns at publish establishments. :shrug:
 
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