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Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... And Th

Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Going to that business is absolutely a choice, which means you have no argument.

Jerry, whether going into a business is a choice or not has no bearing on whether that business should be allowed to discriminate. You can't be discriminated against because you're a Christian. That's a choice you've made and yet society has decided it is a protected class. Society has also decided not to discriminate based on race. It's now time to extend the same rights, privileges and benefits we have to other people regardless of whether being gay is a choice or something you're born with. If you don't like it, you can seclude yourself in your home and never own a business.

:shrug:
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry, whether going into a business is a choice or not has no bearing on whether that business should be allowed to discriminate. You can't be discriminated against because you're a Christian. That's a choice you've made and yet society has decided it is a protected class. Society has also decided not to discriminate based on race. It's now time to extend the same rights, privileges and benefits we have to other people regardless of whether being gay is a choice or something you're born with. If you don't like it, you can seclude yourself in your home and never own a business.

:shrug:
Quote me accurately, or not at all.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Quote me accurately, or not at all.

I quoted you accurately. You changed your statements 5 minutes after I finished my post. I can see the timestamps Jerry. Now Jerry, this business is discriminating against a broad class of individuals. There are millions of gays. If you think business has a right to discriminate against them, I argue that it doesn't and the law backs me up on it. I win. If you don't like it, you don't have to own a business and benefit from the rights and privileges afforded to you by society. :)
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

I quoted you accurately. You changed your statements 5 minutes after I finished my post.
You didn't let me finish my edit before posting. Nice try, but no.

I can see the timestamps Jerry.
Exactly, we can all see the time-stamps, and that means you didn't wait for me to finish. See, I can spin it too, don't start getting nasty with me as if I'm the business owner who just kicked you out.

Now Jerry, this business is discriminating against a broad class of individuals. There are millions of gays. If you think business has a right to discriminate against them, I argue that it doesn't and the law backs me up on it. I win. If you don't like it, you don't have to own a business and benefit from the rights, privileges and benefits afforded to you by society. :)
I like how you say that as if I agree with the business owner discriminating against gays.

You do realize that I disagree with the owner, right? Probably not, you let your emotions type for you.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

You didn't let me finish my edit before posting. Nice try, but no.

I didn't know you were editing. However, the fact remains that you said it. I addressed what you said before you had a chance to try and moderate your absurd stance. :shrug:

Exactly, we can all see the time-stamps, and that means you didn't wait for me to finish. See, I can spin it too, don't start getting nasty with me as if I'm the business owner who just kicked you out.

For the second time, nobody can see when you're editing a post. So I did in fact address what you said and quoted your accurately. You can continue to try this silly game but it won't change the discussion or your statements.

I like how you say that as if I agree with the business owner discriminating against gays.

I can smell feigned outrage. Jerry, it doesn't matter whether you agree or not. There is absolutely nothing for you to agree or disagree on. He's wrong for discriminating against a large group of people. He's wrong from a legal point. If you don't like it, you can keep trying to complain until the cows come home but it won't change the fact that he's wrong.

You do realize that I disagree with the owner, right? Probably not, you let your emotions type for you.

Well, we know Jerry, you're definitely one of those big anti-homophobia types. Do you tell this lie to everyone? Or just people who you think don't know you?
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

I didn't know you were editing.
And I didn't know you were posting, so calm down with the accusations.

For the second time, nobody can see when you're editing a post.
And while editing, you can't see if someone's posting, so calm down with the accusations.

I can smell feigned outrage. Jerry, it doesn't matter whether you agree or not. There is absolutely nothing for you to agree or disagree on. He's wrong for discriminating against a large group of people. He's wrong from a legal point. If you don't like it, you can keep trying to complain until the cows come home but it won't change the fact that he's wrong.
You don't seem to get that I've sided against the business owner yet so I'll give you some more time to let it sink in.

Or just people who you think don't know you?
Careful, data-mining members of this forum isn't just a bannable offence, it's also illegal.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

And I didn't know you were posting, so calm down with the accusations.

And while editing, you can't see if someone's posting, so calm down with the accusations.

Jerry, I didn't accuse you of anything other than changing your post. Which you did. Continuing to pretend you didn't won't change the fact that the statements I addressed were made by you. Your feigned outrage at this is kind of silly now.

You don't seem to get that I've sided against the business owner yet so I'll give you some more time to let it sink in.

Your statements don't reflect that. However, it seems as if you're having trouble understanding that any way you want to play this, your absurd comparison was wrong. Hell, you even tried to justify discrimination by stating that entering a business was choice.

Careful, data-mining members of this forum isn't just a bannable offence, it's also illegal.

Data-mining? Don't flatter yourself, Jerry. The DP search function is here for a reason. If it's "illegal" to use it, you're welcome to inform Vauge. I'm sure he'll laugh as hard as I normally do when I see some of your past homophobia laden posts on this forum. :lol:
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry, I didn't accuse you of anything other than changing your post.
Accuse means 'to charge with an offence'. Editing a post isn't an offence at all. You're accusing me of a perfectly normal thing, and that means you need to calm down.

Your statements don't reflect that.
You don't think these statements reflect disagreement with the business:
I argue that a business open to the public doesn't have a right to refuse broad classes of customers, but only individuals who harm the business.
You do realize that I disagree with the owner, right?
How can someone read those statements and still believe I side with the business?

However, it seems as if you're having trouble understanding that any way you want to play this, your absurd comparison was wrong. Hell, you even tried to justify discrimination by stating that entering a business was choice.
Something can be a choice and still protected, was the point, which you apparently missed. That race is an immutable trait while carrying a gun is not, is irrelevant. The attribute can be a choice and still protected, such as marital status and religion. I wasn't justifying discrimination, I was arguing a finer point. This also calls back to all those "homosexuality is a choice" threads where I'm found arguing: "so what". Even IF homosexuality is a choice, we should still legalize same-sex marriage.

But I digress.

Data-mining? Don't flatter yourself, Jerry.
You said:
Or just people who you think don't know you?
...who I think don't know me? Meaning you claim you actually do know me and I'm not aware? That's called stalking. You wouldn't be the first person from a forum who's come looking for me, I carry a gun for a reason.
 
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Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Accuse means to charge with an offence, but editing a post isn't an offence at all, so that you're accusing me of a perfectly normal thing means you need to calm down.

It also means to hold somebody responsible for something. You are in fact responsible for having changed your post after I replied to it. If you don't like it, you can take it up with someone who cares. :shrug:

You don't think these statements reflect disagreement with the bushiness:

It's nice that you changed your statements after I quoted them, but it doesn't change your absurd defense of the issue. :shrug:

Something can be a choice and still protected, was the point, which you apparently missed.

And yet, being gay is not a choice. :shrug:

That race is an immutable trait while carrying a gun is not, is irrelevant. The attribute can be a choice and still protected, such as marital status and religion. I wasn't justifying discrimination, I was arguing a finer point.

Jerry, your point was that carrying a gun and being black were comparable. That's patently absurd. You can leave your gun at home, you can't leave your sexual orientation and skin color at home.

You said:

...who I think don't know me? Meaning you claim you actually do know me and I'm not aware? That's called stalking. You wouldn't be the first person from a forum who's come looking for me, I carry a gun for a reason.

Jerry if you feel it's an offense and illegal to claim that I know you after you after nearly 50K posts, many of which are homophobic in nature, I welcome you to report it to the mods. Instead of you know, accusing people of criminal behavior and trying to pick at a person's words.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

It also means to hold somebody responsible for something. You are in fact responsible for having changed your post after I replied to it. If you don't like it, you can take it up with someone who cares. :shrug:It's nice that you changed your statements after I quoted them, but it doesn't change your absurd defense of the issue. :shrug:And yet, being gay is not a choice. :shrug:Jerry, your point was that carrying a gun and being black were comparable. That's patently absurd. You can leave your gun at home, you can't leave your sexual orientation and skin color at home.Jerry if you feel it's an offense and illegal to claim that I know you after you after nearly 50K posts, many of which are homophobic in nature, I welcome you to report it to the mods. Instead of you know, accusing people of criminal behavior and trying to pick at a person's words.
....still editing....
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

....still editing....

Learn to edit faster, Jerry. Wait, first, learn to stick by your words. :shrug:
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry, your point was that carrying a gun and being black were comparable.
They're both things businesses want to discriminate against for no good reason. This kind of discrimination hinders the free flow of commerce and harms the nation by extension, and therefore shouldn't be allowed.

Jerry if you feel it's an offense and illegal to claim that I know you after you after nearly 50K posts, many of which are homophobic in nature, I welcome you to report it to the mods. Instead of you know, accusing people of criminal behavior and trying to pick at a person's words.
I don't quote posts I report to mods because on some of the forums I belong to quoting a post you report will get you suspended (it's seen as trying to get the last word in and thus trolling), and so I don't do it on any forum just to make sure I don't mix up the rules on accident. This means once I've responded to your post, I won't then report it, so telling me to report you after I've already quoted you is weaksouse.

Anyway, 'homophobia' is just something stupid people say when they run out of arguments. Anyone who "knows" me knows that I am rarely consistent on any topic. I'm not here to present a consistent view, I'm here to debate and I love defending the underdog. The more controversial the side, the more fun it is to argue and thus the more likely you are to see me on it.

And that's why people think I'm a troll, too. Oh well, sucks to be them.

Learn to edit faster, Jerry.
Admin give me 25 minutes and with my connection problems I'll take every one of them. If you don't like it, ask Admin to change it.

Wait, first, learn to stick by your words.
Why? I have no contract with you that I should abide by it's terms.
 
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Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

They're both things businesses want to discriminate against for no good reason.

This kind of discrimination hinders the free flow of commerce and harms the nation by extension, and therefore shouldn't be allowed.

And yet there is a difference between one and the other. :shrug: Just like businesses can tell you that they don't allow kids, and you have the choice to leave them at home. You can't leave your skin color and sexual attraction at home, Jerry. They're not the same no matter how hard you try to pretend that they are.

I don't quote posts I report to mods because on some of the forums I belong to quoting a post you report will get you suspended (it's seen as trying to get the last word in and thus trolling), and so I don't do it on any forum just to make sure I don't mix up the rules on accident. This means once I've responded to your post, I won't then report it, so telling me to report you after I've already quoted you is weaksouse.

Anyway, 'homophobia' is just something stupid people say when they run out of arguments. Anyone who "knows" me knows that I am rarely consistent on any topic. I'm not here to present a consistent view, I'm here to debate and I love defending the underdog. The more controversial the side, the more fun it is to argue and thus the more likely you are to see me on it.

And that's why people think I'm a troll, too. Oh well, sucks to be them.

Jerry, that works with people who haven't seen your outburst over zee gays. Now, if you want to pretend like you're some sort of crusader for gay rights, you're not going to fool somebody who has been here as long as yourself. If you want to pretend like you just pick positions to debate, you're welcome to do that to. It still isn't fooling me. :shrug:
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

And yet there is a difference between one and the other. :shrug: Just like businesses can tell you that they don't allow kids, and you have the choice to leave them at home. You can't leave your skin color and sexual attraction at home, Jerry. They're not the same no matter how hard you try to pretend that they are.
Right. And that's completely irrelevant. Rather or not you can 'leave it at home', doesn't matter, at all. The only thing that matters is if it's causing a harm to the business. If it is, then the business is justified in having it removed. If it isn't harmful, then the business should be forced by law to allow it or shut down.

Jerry, that works with people who haven't seen your outburst over zee gays. Now, if you want to pretend like you're some sort of crusader for gay rights, you're not going to fool somebody who has been here as long as yourself. If you want to pretend like you just pick positions to debate, you're welcome to do that to. It still isn't fooling me. :shrug:
Oh let me be clear, I don't give a **** about gay rights. If it were in the national interest to box up gays and send them off to 'camps, I would be all for it. But that's not in our best interest. What's in our best interest is a free-flowing, vibrant economy, and unnecessary restrictions on consumers hinders that.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Right. And that's completely irrelevant. Rather or not you can 'leave it at home', doesn't matter, at all. The only thing that matters is if it's causing a harm to the business. If it is, then the business is justified in having it removed. If it isn't harmful, then the business should be forced by law to allow it or shut down.

Jerry, your personal thoughts on whether it's harming the business or not are irrelevant. The reason behind deciding to ban X group of people and X objects is entirely different. Once again, guns can be left at home, skin color and sexual orientation can't be left at home. :shrug:

Oh let me be clear, I don't give a **** about gay rights. If it were in the national interest to box up gays and send them off to 'camps, I would be all for it. But that's not in our best interest. What's in our best interest is a free-flowing, vibrant economy, and unnecessary restrictions on consumers hinders that.

So then you're against gays being discriminated against? :)
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry, your personal thoughts on whether it's harming the business or not are irrelevant. The reason behind deciding to ban X group of people and X objects is entirely different.
It's all the same: personal bias, no real reason.

Once again, guns can be left at home, skin color and sexual orientation can't be left at home.
Irrelevant.

So then you're against gays being discriminated against? :)
By default. Businesses shouldn't be discriminating against anyone.

Just like businesses can tell you that they don't allow kids, and you have the choice to leave them at home.
Let's explore that.

So if I'm in OH visiting my kids and some business tells me I have to leave my kids at home, I'm expected to make that 1,200mile trip back to SD, drop my kids off, make the 1,200mile trip back to the store, then 1,200miles back to SD to pick my kids up, and 1,200miles back to OH to continue with our visit? And no, I can't leave them at their house, because the ex is either gon or will call the cops and file a report that I'm not fulfilling visitation.

No, I can't leave my gun at home, because there are "prohibited persons" who would then have access to it. I could leave it in my car but this thread is about a mechanic's shop so if I'm dropping the car off...

And if I'm your employee, no I can't leave my phone at home because my neighborhood is prone to burglaries (hence the aforementioned firearm). As long as I'm not, say, texting while driving a forklift, it's not your place to worry about if I have a phone or not.

You have no idea rather or not I can leave the thing you don't like at home, and it's not your business to even worry about. My person is not your business, so mind your business ;)
 
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Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

It's all the same: personal bias, no real reason.

Irrelevant.

Jerry, every single form of personal bias involves some sort of discrimination. However, as you should know by now, not all forms of discrimination are illegal. So no, it's not all the same. With that stated, your continued attempt to try and paint all to be the same is getting pretty absurd now. What's in question is not discrimination itself, but discrimination of gay people.

By default. Businesses shouldn't be discriminating against anyone.

Let's explore that.

So if I'm in OH visiting my kids and some business tells me I have to leave my kids at home, I'm expected to make that 1,200mile trip back to SD, drop my kids off, make the 1,200mile trip back to the store, then 1,200miles back to SD to pick my kids up, and 1,200miles back to OH to continue with our visit? And no, I can't leave them at their house, because the ex is either gon or will call the cops and file a report that I'm not fulfilling visitation.

You have no idea rather or not I can leave the thing you don't like at home, and it's not your business to even worry about.

No, I can't leave my gun at home, because there are "prohibited persons" who would then have access to it. And if I'm your employee, no I can't leave my phone at home because my neighborhood is prone to burglaries (hence the aforementioned firearm). As long as I'm not, say, texting while driving a forklift, it's not your place to worry about if I have a phone or not.

You could always find a babysitter, Jerry. You can work out of a solution with your X about your kids. You can't find a babysitter for gayness or leave it with any individual. Continuing to compare issues in which whatever it is you're carrying with you, is something which can be left at home or in the care of another individual makes you look desperate. They're not even remotely comparable.

:shrug:
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

you compare humans to guns ? :shock:

Of course he doesn't. Guns are more important.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Of course he doesn't. Guns are more important.
Well I have to say that there are far more gun owners than gays, which does make gun owners more relevant than gays as a voting demographic.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Well I have to say that there are far more gun owners than gays, which does make gun owners more relevant than gays as a voting demographic.

So what.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An


He's just hellbent on trying to make the two look equal. It's kind of like when people argue that atheism is a religion. You just let them dig themselves a hole and watch them try and spin the argument out of logic.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

You didn't let me finish my edit before posting. Nice try, but no.


Exactly, we can all see the time-stamps, and that means you didn't wait for me to finish. See, I can spin it too, don't start getting nasty with me as if I'm the business owner who just kicked you out.


I like how you say that as if I agree with the business owner discriminating against gays.

You do realize that I disagree with the owner, right? Probably not, you let your emotions type for you.

You made the mistake of engaging him in the first place.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

Jerry, every single form of personal bias involves some sort of discrimination. However, as you should know by now, not all forms of discrimination are illegal. So no, it's not all the same. With that stated, your continued attempt to try and paint all to be the same is getting pretty absurd now. What's in question is not discrimination itself, but discrimination of gay people.
If this thread is about gays then I don't know why Medusa's posting signs about race. It seems you've been outvoted, this thread is about more than just gays.

You could always find a babysitter, Jerry.
For a 5 minute visit in a shop? That's ridiculous.

You can work out of a solution with your X about your kids.
You claim to know me yet you think the ex and I can work anything out? On any topic? HA!:lol:

You can't find a babysitter for gayness or leave it with any individual. Continuing to compare issues in which whatever it is you're carrying with you, is something which can be left at home or in the care of another individual makes you look desperate. They're not even remotely comparable.

:shrug:
They're both things the business owner has no business even inquiring about let alone restricting.
 
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Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

It is so sad that people's understanding of religion has become so distorted that he does not realize that what he is doing is immoral.

Actually the "distortion" of religion has come about in the degree of acceptance of what has traditionally been interpreted as severe and deadly sin. It is the gay or abortion movements that are aberrant in that respect, whether you are partial to such acts or not.
 
Re: Michigan Car Repair Shop Owner Says He Will Turn Away Openly Gay Customers ... An

If this thread is about gays then I don't know why Medusa's posting signs about race. It seems you've been outvoted, this thread is about more than just gays.

Jerry, read the title and get back to me. It is in fact about gays. The very reason the person decided to make those statements was because of gays. Now, I don't care about Medusa. I addressed your post.

For a 5 minute visit in a shop? That's ridiculous.

Then leave them outside the shop for 5 mins, Jerry. The same applies for guns. Can someone leave skin color and sexual orientation outside for 5 mins while the person goes in for a 5 minute visit? No.

You claim to know me yet you think the ex and I can work anything out? On any topic? HA!:lol:

Your marital problems don't really concern me. What I do know are your positions on homosexuality. They're not exactly friendly to them. :shrug:

They're both things the business owner has no business even inquiring about let alone restricting.

Actually, business owners have a responsibility to ensure the safety of their customers. If they feel guns threaten the safety of their customers, they are more than allowed to ban them because a gun owner can leave their weapon at home or any number of places.

En tout cas, businesses that restrict the entry of children usually do so because of the content of their merchandise. Others are allowed to do so because they provide services which minors can't legally access. Such discrimination is allowed because being a parent is definitely something which you can leave at home, being gay is not.

Again, nobody here is discussing discrimination itself but discrimination of a group of people based on a trait they can't in any sense of the word distance themselves from. You can't stop being gay for 5 mins while you go in the store. You can't leave gayness in a car. You can't leave gayness with a babysitter. You can't even tie it to a parking meter while you go about your business. So no matter how hard you try, Jerry, they're not the same thing.
 
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