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Thread: Police and "Free Range" Children

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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Why couldn't the police have told the kids, hop in and we'll give you a lift home. and that's the most I would grant.
    Because they probably knew that the children would be doing the same thing tomorrow. Rather, the core issue needs to be addressed. That can be done by:

    A. taking action against the parents, or
    B. accept that allowing the kids to walk to the park is with in the parental authority of the couple.

    As for "A" verse "B", I would objectively go for "B" (the couple's decision, though questionable is not criminal). Subjectively though, after seeing the street video, I would not have alot of sympathy for the parents should the State of Maryland go for option "A".
    Last edited by Cryptic; 04-17-15 at 08:56 AM.

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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Because they probably knew that the children would be doing the same thing tomorrow. Rather, the core issue needs to be addressed. That can be done by:

    A. taking action against the parents, or
    B. accept that allowing the kids to walk to the park is with in the parental authority of the couple.

    As for "A" verse "B", I would objectively go for "B" (the couple's decision, though questionable is not criminal). Subjectively though, after seeing the street video, I would not have alot of sympathy for the parents should the State of Maryland go for option "A".
    Then you endorse the evolving police state. Option B is the only option for free America.
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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Then you endorse the evolving police state. Option B is the only option for free America.
    Personally, I would go for "B" as the couple's decision, though questionable is not criminal.

    After seeing a video of the street, I am just not going to affirm their decision. if Maryland goes for option "A" (which I hope they do not), I am not going to make a donation to say, a legal defense fund for the parents.

    In short, option "B" is the correct out come- I just dont have alot of smpathy for these particular parents. That does not mean I favor option "A", and it definetly does not mean I favor a police state.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 04-17-15 at 09:16 AM.

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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Because they probably knew that the children would be doing the same thing tomorrow. Rather, the core issue needs to be addressed. That can be done by:

    A. taking action against the parents, or
    B. accept that allowing the kids to walk to the park is with in the parental authority of the couple.

    As for "A" verse "B", I would objectively go for "B" (the couple's decision, though questionable is not criminal). Subjectively though, after seeing the street video, I would not have alot of sympathy for the parents should the State of Maryland go for option "A".
    There was absolutely no legitimate legal basis for the action the police took. There are at least three SC courses affirming parents 14th amendment right to raise their children as they see fit. The state cannot usurp that right just because it disagrees with parenting choices. Letting your young kids walk home in a safe neighborhood is perfectly safe. I hope the parents sue and take the municipality to the cleaners.
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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    There was absolutely no legitimate legal basis for the action the police took. There are at least three SC courses affirming parents 14th amendment right to raise their children as they see fit. The state cannot usurp that right just because it disagrees with parenting choices. Letting your young kids walk home in a safe neighborhood is perfectly safe. I hope the parents sue and take the municipality to the cleaners.
    You are mixing apples with oranges with the supreme court references. Parents dont have an inherent right to endanger their children. That moves the analysis to whether or not the children are being endangered. If they are being endangered, then the parents can face criminal charges.

    After seeing a video of the street, I think the actions of the parents are questionable, but not criminal per se. Thus, the State should drop the issue. At the same time, I really dont have alot of sympathy for these particular parents (street is busy, side walks narrow). Thus... no contributions to a hypothetical legal defense fund from me
    Last edited by Cryptic; 04-17-15 at 09:33 AM.

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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    You are mixing apples with oranges with the supreme court references. Parents dont have an inherent right to endanger their children. That moves the analysis to whether or not the chidlren are being endangered. If they are being endangered, then the parents can face criminal charges.

    After seeing a video of the street, I think the actions of the parents are questionable, but not criminal per se. Thus, the State should drop the issue. At the same time, I really dont have alot of sympathy for these particular parents. Thus... no contributions to a hypothetical legal defense fund from me
    It's not apples and oranges. What it does is set the stage for deciding when the state can step in and the SC has said that the state must have a very compelling argument - one justice went as far as saying the standard should be "strict scrutiny" which is the highest hurdle they have.

    Objectively - based on statistics - it's completely safe for kids to walk home alone. It depends on the neighborhood of course but assuming a normal suburb the incidence of kids being in hit by cars is lower, much much lower, than kids being in cars that in accidents. And kids honestly almost never get kidnapped and when they do it's usually by someone they know. In short those kids were probably safer on the street than they were in the police car. Given that and given the high hurdle that the SC has erected for the state to legally second guess parents the state here is in all likelihood wrong and should be made to pay for it.
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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    It's not apples and oranges. What it does is set the stage for deciding when the state can step in and the SC has said that the state must have a very compelling argument - one justice went as far as saying the standard should be "strict scrutiny" which is the highest hurdle they have.
    And the courts have determined that the State does have a compelling interest in preventing me from endangering my children. As a result, if I do endanger them, I can face criminal charges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Objectively - based on statistics - it's completely safe for kids to walk home alone. It depends on the neighborhood of course but assuming a normal suburb the incidence of kids being in hit by cars is lower, much much lower, than kids being in cars that in accidents. And kids honestly almost never get kidnapped and when they do it's usually by someone they know.
    Agreed.

    That is why my own children are also free range (to a point) and they dont even wear bicyle helmets. All that aside, after seeing video of this specific street, and the specific ages of the children, and the specific sidewalks, these parents are not going to get any "High fives" from me. That does not mean I think their actions are criminal (questionable judgement does not mean "criminal"), it just means that I dont have alot of sympathy for them.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 04-17-15 at 10:00 AM.

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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    And the courts have determined that the State does have a compelling interest in preventing me from endangering my children. As a result, if I do endanger them, I can face criminal charges.


    Agreed.

    That is why my own children are also free range (to a point) and they dont even wear bicyle helmets. All that aside, after seeing video of this specific street, and the specific ages of the children, and the specific sidewalks, these parents are not going to get any "High fives" from me. That does not mean I think their actions are criminal (questionable judgement does not mean "criminal"), it just means that I dont have alot of sympathy for them.
    We largely agree.
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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    To ride in a car unrestrained with a policeman? The only way I could believe this being traumatic is if the parents are loony anti police advocates and taught their kids to fear cops. They didn't take them to jail....
    It was the kid-equivalent of jail, being treated like other juvenile delinquents, possibly in with juvenile delinquents, held against their will, period. I would be really pissed if my kids were subjected to that stuff if they didnt deserve it.
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    Re: Police and "Free Range" Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    And the courts have determined that the State does have a compelling interest in preventing me from endangering my children. As a result, if I do endanger them, I can face criminal charges.


    Agreed.

    That is why my own children are also free range (to a point) and they dont even wear bicyle helmets. All that aside, after seeing video of this specific street, and the specific ages of the children, and the specific sidewalks, these parents are not going to get any "High fives" from me. That does not mean I think their actions are criminal (questionable judgement does not mean "criminal"), it just means that I dont have alot of sympathy for them.
    I never understood the whole kids must wear bicycle helmets thing. The fact of the matter is there is really no evidence out there to suggest they do anything but look stupid.

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