Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Good for Obama.

If it aint broke, don't fix it. There has been presented no compelling reason to change our policy toward Cuba. This POTUS appears to be making the change solely to be seen to make the change. We should continue the policy of exclusion until the last Castro has died.

clownboy said:

If it aint broke, don't fix it. There has been presented no compelling reason to change our policy toward Cuba. This POTUS appears to be making the change solely to be seen to make the change. We should continue the policy of exclusion until the last Castro has died.

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Why?


.

Glen Contrarian said:

I know, I know. But the fact that they are illegal not more than thirty miles to the south of where you're at makes them special to us.

Did you ever see "Smokey and the Bandit" with Burt Reynolds and Sally Field? The premise was smuggling a semi full of Coors beer east of the Mississippi, because at that point in time in the 70's, Coors would not sell their beer east of the Mississippi. So to those of us who lived about thirty miles on the wrong side of the Mississippi (yes, that was me, thirty miles east of Greenville, MS), Coors was something special...even though it's really not that good a beer. The fact that it was smuggled made it special. And so it is with Cuban cigars. One time I did buy some in Vancouver and I sent them to my brother in Mississippi...and he loved them, shared them with his boss.

I guess it's when something relatively harmless is illegal or otherwise unavailable, that something becomes special to those of us among the Great Unwashed.....

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That describes the island of Cuba.

I suggest that 10% of the American population be allowed to stay a week there and all this would be over.

The Cuban people have not softened one bit, and while the Castro regime has opponents, one thing on which they are united is the embargoes. You will never get them to capitulate as long as they are in place, they see it as punishment for a stupid president's non-invasion.

You will bring about social change by trading with them. It is socio-economics, when the impoverished see the possibility of betterment, they become disruptive and combative. Solidarity in Poland, the force that led to the crumbling of the Berlin Wall did not come about because of poverty and being oppressed, it was food and blue jeans. The example locally was Polish sailors who would put in here for supplies and the men would see whole buildings full of fresh fruit and vegetables, cabnets laden with choice cuts of meat. But they could smuggle blue jeans in. And the people began to see they had been lied to and wanted what we have, starting withn being able to get tractor parts. The soviet era in Poland ended rather abruptly.

Let them have some modern cars, and car parts, blue jeans and computers. It will not be long before the Castro regime has a Solidarity on its hands.

I do understand the draw of the forbidden, some men see married women as more attractive because it is what they shouldn't have. Frankly, if I were to remove the labels and send you a few Cuban cigars along with some Dominican Cuban seed cigars, you would not know the difference. The DR is cheap as borscht and you can buy a box of 20 for about $60, $225 here.

Fearandloathing said:

Because a rookie president with a flair or James Bond failed an invasion, and played domestic politics with Russia, Cuba has been made into a boogie man to keep Americans afraid. Everyone who goes there for the first time stands in awe wondering what the fuss is. It is a very small island that just wants to be left alone. They kicked out the severely corrupt mafia backed Batista regime only to have to repel an American invasion [Kennedy it is said narrowly escaped nuclear war by calling off air support. The "missile crisis" was manufactured over Kennedy extending nukes into Turkey so Russia simply said "OK, we'll put some in Cuba dick head.

On every front by every president Americans have been lied to about Cuba.

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You have to be be the first person I've ever seen that agreed it was a manufactured crisis. Kudos to you sir for knowing the actual history and not the propaganda that I've seen permeate throughout most people I've spoke with.

Nicci said:

You have to be be the first person I've ever seen that agreed it was a manufactured crisis. Kudos to you sir for knowing the actual history and not the propaganda that I've seen permeate throughout most people I've spoke with.

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I have no idea why that is.

The information is there in numerous books, it is declassified along with Kennedy's call to Kruschev promising to remove the missiles from Turkey.

I suspect it may have to do with the martyr myth that surrounded Kennedy. He was far from a shoe in for reelection, people were damned pissed off., We forget Kennedy actually lost the debate, especially on foreign policy where Nixon wiped the floor with him. It was day or more later when the media started saying Nixon lost because of the five o'clock shadow.

Kennedy in my opinion was one of the worst presidents of the modern era, behind Ford, Carter and Truman

ReverendHellh0und said:

Why?


.

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I explained why in the first two sentences. There is absolutely NO compelling reason for us to change the policy and the same old reasons for keeping it. It aint broke, quit trying to monkey with it.

clownboy said:

I explained why in the first two sentences. There is absolutely NO compelling reason for us to change the policy and the same old reasons for keeping it. It aint broke, quit trying to monkey with it.

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You think that explains anything?


It doesn't.


why keep it? who does it help? who does it hurt?

Fearandloathing said:

I have no idea why that is.

The information is there in numerous books, it is declassified along with Kennedy's call to Kruschev promising to remove the missiles from Turkey.

I suspect it may have to do with the martyr myth that surrounded Kennedy. He was far from a shoe in for reelection, people were damned pissed off., We forget Kennedy actually lost the debate, especially on foreign policy where Nixon wiped the floor with him. It was day or more later when the media started saying Nixon lost because of the five o'clock shadow.

Kennedy in my opinion was one of the worst presidents of the modern era, behind Ford, Carter and Truman

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I'd say it has to do with where I grew up during my teen years in the US as opposed to anything else. That "good ol' boys", Merica HELL YEAH was pretty evident even in the history classes I had to attend in high school and college. Only recently have I seen books that reported the fallacy Kennedy used during the Missile Crisis and still people don't believe it was faked.

That being said, to do with the topic at hand.

I agree that dropping the Embargo on Cuba is a good thing, it gives their dictatorship one less target to point at as the reason why they are failing in terms of governmental controls.

Nicci said:

I'd say it has to do with where I grew up during my teen years in the US as opposed to anything else. That "good ol' boys", Merica HELL YEAH was pretty evident even in the history classes I had to attend in high school and college. Only recently have I seen books that reported the fallacy Kennedy used during the Missile Crisis and still people don't believe it was faked.

That being said, to do with the topic at hand.

I agree that dropping the Embargo on Cuba is a good thing, it gives their dictatorship one less target to point at as the reason why they are failing in terms of governmental controls.

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As well exposure of other lies the regime tells them.

I know of what you speak, in grade 8 in a US high school I took detention because I refused to write an essay on "better dead than red" an wrote the opposite with a ramble about the French resistance.

That and the juiced up story of how he was shot, which I always, from the time Jack Ruby shot Oswald, never believed, that I became first a hippie protestor then a journalist in Canada. "You cannot suppress a free mind": Lech Welensa, dock worker.

Fearandloathing said:

As well exposure of other lies the regime tells them.

I know of what you speak, in grade 8 in a US high school I took detention because I refused to write an essay on "better dead than red" an wrote the opposite with a ramble about the French resistance.

That and the juiced up story of how he was shot, which I always, from the time Jack Ruby shot Oswald, never believed, that I became first a hippie protestor then a journalist in Canada. "You cannot suppress a free mind": Lech Welensa, dock worker.

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I wish some of the forums that I used to post on were still around. I'd love to link you to the stuff people used to say all because I didn't believe the propagada as it didn't make sense with how I grew up (outside the US prior to HighSchool). If those people could have seen the world as it was as opposed to what they were told, public opinion in this would be a lot less one sided.

Fearandloathing said:

Let them have some modern cars, and car parts, blue jeans and computers. It will not be long before the Castro regime has a Solidarity on its hands.

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Quoted for truth! I've been saying that for many years. I'm not a fan of unregulated capitalism, but like opium for imperial China, once the people get a taste for it, it's very, very hard to resist....

Nicci said:

I wish some of the forums that I used to post on were still around. I'd love to link you to the stuff people used to say all because I didn't believe the propagada as it didn't make sense with how I grew up (outside the US prior to HighSchool). If those people could have seen the world as it was as opposed to what they were told, public opinion in this would be a lot less one sided.

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I started my education in rural Ontario, did the middle part in New York state and college in a progressive educational environment; almost no classrooms, self directed study components.

One would be forgiven for wondering if you are studying two different histories. Here we have pride in our roll in the Underground Railroad, and have historical markers, apparently it isn't even taught there now, one of the greatest examples of overcoming slavery is suppressed. Why?

I recall the Benghazi attack on the US consulate, where I was reading first-hand accounts in the Guardian Newspaper the next day while much of America was still wondering if it was a spontaneous demonstration. To this day people don't really see the significance of that. I long for the day when my friends south of the line wake up and realize how much they have been lied to, some in Washington are getting it, especially when they found out I traveled to Cuba forgetting my passport and they let me in and out again. I cannot ever enter the United States without my passport. What does that tell you?

Good. This shouldn't be news, this should have happened a long time ago.

Glen Contrarian said:

Quoted for truth! I've been saying that for many years. I'm not a fan of unregulated capitalism, but like opium for imperial China, once the people get a taste for it, it's very, very hard to resist....

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Except opium was forced on the Chinese.

But you are dead on. Money talks everywhere. They get a taste of comfort, some nice clothes, reliable cars and Castro won't be able to roll it back. The Soviets could not stop an unarmed mob of Poles, Castro could not stop a national strike because they don't have good shoes. Not when they have worn good shoes and know what is it is like.

ReverendHellh0und said:

You think that explains anything?


It doesn't.


why keep it? who does it help? who does it hurt?

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It does. Fully. Again, no compelling reason to change the policy and the US is not hurt at all by continuance. It works as it is. How many more times does it need to be said?

clownboy said:

It does. Fully. Again, no compelling reason to change the policy and the US is not hurt at all by continuance. It works as it is. How many more times does it need to be said?

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I guess i'm simply more intellectuallt curious than you. "Because" is not a satifactory answer