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Thread: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    You are setting up an awkward condition here.

    If the standard is the party that will gain the most, then the prior policy was not all that useful anyway. We have very little evidence that Cuba either changed from within because of or was forced into isolation because of our Embargo policy. We really did not gain that much under prior policy thinking, but ensure an enemy some 90 miles off our coast. Then saying that Cuba has to give something, *now,* in order to change relations with the US seems dubious. Since prior policy did not really accomplish much we have no real choice but to consider a new policy that may do enough for Cuba tomorrow were we might see some degree of change. Now that has nothing to do with a guarantee of change, just a notion of seeking peaceful trade based relations with various nations in hopes it shifts the nation through trade and diplomacy.

    The way I see it is since we have decades of a Cold War thinking policy that did not achieve many goals. Perhaps we should try a policy that does something for the people of Cuba and the US, in economical sense, and see where we stand down the road. It would be absurd to suggest immediate changes and/or place other conditions in a manner where the only fall back from that type of negotiation is that failed decades old policy the rest of the world ignored anyway. I mean the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Spain, China, France, Germany, the UK, Brazil, Mexico and dozens of others already abandoned the idea and actively trade with Cuba. Continued isolationism is head in the sand thinking.

    We have to start somewhere or we go right back to a 1958 policy that failed, I suggest we try some trade and diplomacy.
    So Cuba is Obama's repressive regime that he wants the US to cuddle up with then?

    MMC's been posting where instances of Cuba promoting violence and terrorism, so now the US is to cuddle up and trade with such a partner?
    Interesting that, and inconsistent, I'd submit.

    How about if Cuba accepts back all the illegal Cubans that we have housed in our prisons due to violent crime?
    How about if Cuba extradites the US criminally sought?

    Now there's a trade that I'd like to make.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    That's try for Saudi Arabia, China and other countries that we call allies.

    What is that they say is the definition of insanity -- doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Well, we have had our Cuba policy in place for over 50 years and it has not caused Cuba to stop being a Communist nation. It's just imposed hardship on the Cuban people.


    Oh and what do you think.....the Castros were doing all they could to make sure that the good people of Cuba were able to live their lives with Liberty and Freedom? That the Castros were doing all they could to improve the Cuban Peoples lives, Right?

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    No that would be based off your logic.
    Nope. That is literally justification they are using to keep Cuba on the list...
    Quite different than those who have been doing this for 25 years.
    Mission of the Center for Security Policy:
    To identify challenges and opportunities likely to affect American security, broadly defined, and to act promptly and creatively to ensure that they are the subject of focused national examination and effective action......snip~
    Center for Security Policy | About Us
    Cool they have an about us page and been around for 25 years. Is this an appeal to authority?
    They didn't say having spies makes one a Terrorist. They informed people what Cuba has concerning espionage.
    In an article about terrorism and cuba's supposed "support" for terrorism...
    *Jaime Suchlicki is Emilio Bacardi Moreau Distinguished Professor and Director, Institute for Cuban and Cuban-American Studies, University of Miami. He is the author of Cuba: From Columbus to Castro, now in its fifth edition; Mexico: From Montezuma to NAFTA, now in its second edition and the recently published Breve Historia de Cuba.
    So we are going to go with the appeal to authority argument...
    Notes 1) See Pedro Roig, “Venezuela-Cuba Military Cooperation and the Narco-Terrorsit Connection.” Cuba Focus. March 18, 2014.
    1 source to 1 specficit argument. The only source cited in the whole freaking article.
    On January 15, 2014 Cuban First Deputy Minister of Foreign Trade described Iran as a “strategic partner” of Cuba.
    Cool. Last time I checked people can have diplomatic relations with whatever country they choose.

    •“Hezbollah in Cuba,” the Hamas-funded Turkish “charity” known as IHH continues to operate in Havana. IHH is a member of the “Union of Good,” an umbrella organization that financially supports Hamas.
    Hezbollah is not in Cuba. The IHH is providing aid to the countries small Muslim population.. Its not even considered a terrorist organization in the US. This is how easy it is to find the BS in this point. The bullet from the article is titled "Hezbollah in Cuba", yet they accuse the IHH of funding Hamas not Hezbollah, because the IHH operates in Cuba... It operates all over the world, in many European countries. You really gonna uphold this claim?

    Last summer the Castro regime was caught smuggling weapons out of Cuba on a North Korean vessel in violation of UN sanctions. Cuba lied to the international community about the content of the vessel. The official UN Report on “Cuba-North Korea Illegal Weapons Trafficking,” published in March 2013, revealed “a comprehensive, planned strategy to conceal the existence and nature of the cargo.” The Report concluded, contrary to Cuba’s allegations, that “some, if not all, of the consignment was not expected to be returned to Cuba.”
    Also not terrorism.

    In February 2014 former Cuban intelligence official, Uberto Mario, described how the Castro regime is training Venezuelan “Tupamaros,” pro-Maduro groups who violently attack Venezuelan students.
    Even if true, also not terrorism. Not a terrorist organization.
    Whining about Townhall who linked directly to the source doesn't do your argument any good.
    I'm not "whining".

    Especially with someone who does analysis and obviously would be looking at the US Interests and not others.
    Hmmm. So we should keep Cuba on the list of state sponsor terrorism for doing non terrorist activities?
    Nah, they go off the History, put current facts together. Its like they do this thing called research. Then they give their assessment.
    The thing is. None of the things you listed are terrorist activities, and now your argument seems to be moving towards appealing to authority.
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    LOL !!

    Communism and a dictator keeps them destiutue, not the GOP.

    They trade with just about every other Nation out there.

    Including us eh Fenton.



    Voices: Cuba embargo? What Cuba embargo?......


    Gomez's observation underscores a fact little known outside Cuban-American communities in the United States. While the U.S. touts the embargo as a way to starve the Castro government of funding it needs to survive, and the international community routinely criticizes America for it, U.S. companies exported more than $350 million in goods to the island last year. Four years ago, it was more than $700 million.

    In past years, the U.S. has been the main food supplier to Cuba. U.S. companies send medicine, medical devices and agricultural products. Cuban Americans send untold amounts of consumer goods to relatives back home, from TVs and computers to toilet paper and T-shirts. Nearly 100,000 American citizens visited the island in 2012 through a variety of specialized visa programs, according to Cuban government figures. The biggest contribution comes through cash remittances that Cuban Americans send to relatives — more than $2.6 billion worth in 2012, according to a study by the Miami-based Havana Consulting Group.

    The 54-year-old economic embargo on Cuba is designed to prevent U.S. businesses and their foreign subsidiaries from trading with Cuba. But since 2000, American businesses have been allowed to sell humanitarian goods to the island. Americans can't travel to Cuba as tourists, but President Obama expanded access to visas for people visiting the island for religious, cultural or educational reasons.....snip~

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...bargo/5417703/

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Here was something from Amnesty's Blog.



    In today’s Cuba, it remains virtually impossible for anyone to peacefully express ideas opposing the Cuban government. All media are under the strict control of the state, as are unions. Despite the subsequent release of dozens of political prisoners early this year, short-term arrests and harassment of political dissidents and human rights activists remain a troubling reality on the island.

    The harassment of dissidents sometimes takes the form of acts of repudiation (actos de repudio). These acts are government-coordinated demonstrations, usually carried out in front of the homes of political opponents. During an act of repudiation, political opponents and human rights activists are subjected to verbal and physical abuse by groups of people chanting pro-government slogans.

    Working within this system, Cuba’s government could send the world a message it now welcomes accountability, transparency, and independent monitoring. But so far the message it has been sending is a very different one. Last month when the Inter-American Commission held a hearing on Cuba’s human rights record, the seats reserved for the Cuban government delegation remained empty, just like in previous hearings.....snip~

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/articles/...-the-americas/


    The United States does not have that, why should Cuba?

    When the American voter knows what happened in Benghazi, when Gitmo's torture chambers are empty, and when we know whether Hillary ****ed up and cost Amereican lives with her email games, then the US can make demands on Cuba

    When the US also makes the same demands on China, Iran, and most of its other "friends", then they can make demands on Cuba.

    The US has lost the moral high ground.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nope. That is literally justification they are using to keep Cuba on the list...

    Cool they have an about us page and been around for 25 years. Is this an appeal to authority?

    In an article about terrorism and cuba's supposed "support" for terrorism...

    So we are going to go with the appeal to authority argument...

    1 source to 1 specficit argument. The only source cited in the whole freaking article.

    Cool. Last time I checked people can have diplomatic relations with whatever country they choose.


    Hezbollah is not in Cuba. The IHH is providing aid to the countries small Muslim population.. Its not even considered a terrorist organization in the US. This is how easy it is to find the BS in this point. The bullet from the article is titled "Hezbollah in Cuba", yet they accuse the IHH of funding Hamas not Hezbollah, because the IHH operates in Cuba... It operates all over the world, in many European countries. You really gonna uphold this claim?


    Also not terrorism.


    Even if true, also not terrorism. Not a terrorist organization.

    I'm not "whining".


    Hmmm. So we should keep Cuba on the list of state sponsor terrorism for doing non terrorist activities?

    The thing is. None of the things you listed are terrorist activities, and now your argument seems to be moving towards appealing to authority.

    That's what the Policy of Defense Study does.....no where do they cite anything about Cuba being taken on or off the Terrorism list. Yes its cool they have been around sometime.

    Cuba has not abandoned its support for terrorists groups and states. Moreover they also do not extradite. No not one source......so again you are wrong.

    This article was originally posted as part of the Cuba Transition Project. Tagged with → Cuba • Hezbollah • Iran • Venezuela .....snip~ <<<<< links to all sorts of Articles. Each one!

    Well, you always seem to be whining over Right leaning sources. Even when they are being Correct.



    •Cuba directly and through Venezuela continues to provide intelligence to Hamas and Hezbollah.
    •Two Arab Shiites, Ghazi Nasr Al din and Fawzi Kanaan have set-up shop in Caracas, Venezuela under the protection of the Venezuelan government. Working in coordination with the Cuban government, both are active in promoting Hezbollah and Iranian targets in South America and against the U.S. They fundraise for Hezbollah; facilitate travel for Hezbollah activists to Venezuela and through Venezuela to other countries. This is all part of the strategic alliance between Venezuela, Cuba and Iran. There are also reports that they have smuggled narcotics and terrorists to the U.S. through Mexico and arms and explosives under Iranian diplomatic cover.
    •Current and former members of Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA), a Basque terrorist organization continue to reside in Cuba. While some of these terrorists are on the island as part of an accord between the Cuban and Spanish governments, others are hiding in Cuba, fugitives of Spanish justice......snip~

    Center for Security Policy | Cuba?s Support for Terrorism and the Venezuela-Iran Nexus


    Thing is you just can't seem to figure out that being an ally of Iran......comes with all those benefits from the Iranians. Which all know Iran is State sponsor of terrorism.

  7. #67
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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So Cuba is Obama's repressive regime that he wants the US to cuddle up with then?

    MMC's been posting where instances of Cuba promoting violence and terrorism, so now the US is to cuddle up and trade with such a partner?
    Interesting that, and inconsistent, I'd submit.

    How about if Cuba accepts back all the illegal Cubans that we have housed in our prisons due to violent crime?
    How about if Cuba extradites the US criminally sought?

    Now there's a trade that I'd like to make.
    What makes Cuba unique when compared to other "repressive" regimes that we not only trade with but go well beyond cuddling up with to actively supporting them?

    If there is anything consistent happening here, it is a continuation of a hypocritical and confusing foreign policy that suggests we can overlook the actions of some of our trading partners but other nations are off limits. Worse, we suggest bottom up punishments work but most end with either dubious reasoning or failed results.

    These attempts at deals for Cuba taking back all illegal Cuban immigrants or agreeing to an extradition treaty can be looked at, but it would be devoid of usefulness to suggest if we cannot obtain those things then go back to a policy that both failed and the rest of the world ignored.

    There is some reality here we are going to have to accept. They did not change, and isolationism for them did not happen.

    We need a change and I am beginning to suspect that most of the opposition to the idea is based more on who is trying to make a change over real concern for Cuba, or their government.
    Last edited by OrphanSlug; 04-15-15 at 01:03 PM. Reason: typo
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    The United States does not have that, why should Cuba?

    When the American voter knows what happened in Benghazi, when Gitmo's torture chambers are empty, and when we know whether Hillary ****ed up and cost Amereican lives with her email games, then the US can make demands on Cuba

    When the US also makes the same demands on China, Iran, and most of its other "friends", then they can make demands on Cuba.

    The US has lost the moral high ground.


    Cmon now F&L.....would Amnesty just make things up only when it concerns a Communist Regime?

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Cmon now F&L.....would Amnesty just make things up only when it concerns a Communist Regime?
    I am not saying they are mistaken, only that the US hasn't a leg to stand on to demand anything of Cuba. America needs to deal with the cancer that is Gitmo and then can offer suggestions to other nations. Demands don't work anymore.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    I am not saying they are mistaken, only that the US hasn't a leg to stand on to demand anything of Cuba. America needs to deal with the cancer that is Gitmo and then can offer suggestions to other nations. Demands don't work anymore.


    Even if they closed down the Prison.....the Military base isn't going anywhere.

    Perhaps some other countries that are humanitarian like.....would consider taking the terrorists. Whats left of them.....off of our hands. Then we can use the safeguard soap going forward.

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