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Thread: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Here was something from Amnesty's Blog.



    In today’s Cuba, it remains virtually impossible for anyone to peacefully express ideas opposing the Cuban government. All media are under the strict control of the state, as are unions. Despite the subsequent release of dozens of political prisoners early this year, short-term arrests and harassment of political dissidents and human rights activists remain a troubling reality on the island...
    That's try for Saudi Arabia, China and other countries that we call allies.

    What is that they say is the definition of insanity -- doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Well, we have had our Cuba policy in place for over 50 years and it has not caused Cuba to stop being a Communist nation. It's just imposed hardship on the Cuban people.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    and the embargo hasn't dislodged it, either. time to try something else.



    possibly. we're their closest neighbor and the biggest economic force in the hemisphere.



    i'm curious about that myself. maybe the combination of ending the embargo and the Castros exiting the scene will be enough to topple the dictatorship.


    Nothing will happen until Gitmo is closed and the US is out of Cuba. Trade isn't their big interest and if it was the US is about the last place they would shop. China, Canada, Venezuela, Russia, France, Spain will be who they do business with.

    Think the "liberation" of Iraq where everyone thought the US would be welcomed with open arms. The US is pretty much despised there
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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Nothing will happen until Gitmo is closed and the US is out of Cuba. Trade isn't their big interest and if it was the US is about the last place they would shop. China, Canada, Venezuela, Russia, France, Spain will be who they do business with.

    Think the "liberation" of Iraq where everyone thought the US would be welcomed with open arms. The US is pretty much despised there
    i agree that Guantanamo Bay should be closed. however, i think that normalized trade relations with the biggest economic force in the region is bound to have an impact on the Cuban economy.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    I'm not really against trade and diplomacy with Cuba, but in this international relationship, who's going to be the party that's going to gain the most? I really don't think that it's going to be the US. As such, then, Cuba needs to give some, such as releasing political prisoners, and other human rights issues, for example. Minimal cost, but something. Don't think that Obama's going to do that, or be able to do that.
    You are setting up an awkward condition here.

    If the standard is the party that will gain the most, then the prior policy was not all that useful anyway. We have very little evidence that Cuba either changed from within because of or was forced into isolation because of our Embargo policy. We really did not gain that much under prior policy thinking, but ensure an enemy some 90 miles off our coast. Then saying that Cuba has to give something, *now,* in order to change relations with the US seems dubious. Since prior policy did not really accomplish much we have no real choice but to consider a new policy that may do enough for Cuba tomorrow were we might see some degree of change. Now that has nothing to do with a guarantee of change, just a notion of seeking peaceful trade based relations with various nations in hopes it shifts the nation through trade and diplomacy.

    The way I see it is since we have decades of a Cold War thinking policy that did not achieve many goals. Perhaps we should try a policy that does something for the people of Cuba and the US, in economical sense, and see where we stand down the road. It would be absurd to suggest immediate changes and/or place other conditions in a manner where the only fall back from that type of negotiation is that failed decades old policy the rest of the world ignored anyway. I mean the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Spain, China, France, Germany, the UK, Brazil, Mexico and dozens of others already abandoned the idea and actively trade with Cuba. Continued isolationism is head in the sand thinking.

    We have to start somewhere or we go right back to a 1958 policy that failed, I suggest we try some trade and diplomacy.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So having spies makes one a terrorist? No it doesnt. We have spies, we (the US gov) essentially intercept the whole worlds communications. Does that make the US gov terrorists? Based off this logic, we better put ourselves on our own lists of state sponsors of terrorism...

    No that would be based off your logic. Quite different than those who have been doing this for 25 years.


    Mission of the Center for Security Policy:

    To identify challenges and opportunities likely to affect American security, broadly defined, and to act promptly and creatively to ensure that they are the subject of focused national examination and effective action......snip~

    Center for Security Policy | About Us



    They didn't say having spies makes one a Terrorist. They informed people what Cuba has concerning espionage.


    Wow.. Quite the doomsday hypothetical the CSP have thought up there. "If Iran launches a conflict against the US they might use Cuban intelligence". So now we are basing our list of dreamy hypotheticals?
    Hmmm no surprise here, a claim with no specifics...
    *Jaime Suchlicki is Emilio Bacardi Moreau Distinguished Professor and Director, Institute for Cuban and Cuban-American Studies, University of Miami. He is the author of Cuba: From Columbus to Castro, now in its fifth edition; Mexico: From Montezuma to NAFTA, now in its second edition and the recently published Breve Historia de Cuba.

    Notes 1) See Pedro Roig, “Venezuela-Cuba Military Cooperation and the Narco-Terrorsit Connection.” Cuba Focus. March 18, 2014.


    Seems they reference their Sources and those on the Military Panel.

    So they are basing this essentially of a hypothetical. Not only is the author of the TownHall piece grasping at straws, but the study she sites is as well. The whole argument seems to be based around Iran, Venezuela, and Cuba have good diplomatic relations, Cuba has spies, and therefore if Iran and the US go to war Cuba might offer them intelligence. Its non terroristic activity then put in the context of a hypothetical... This kinda backs up the reasoning to remove them from the list, a lot of the justification for them to remain on the list was purely petty political reasons
    .
    On January 15, 2014 Cuban First Deputy Minister of Foreign Trade described Iran as a “strategic partner” of Cuba.
    •“Hezbollah in Cuba,” the Hamas-funded Turkish “charity” known as IHH continues to operate in Havana. IHH is a member of the “Union of Good,” an umbrella organization that financially supports Hamas.
    Last summer the Castro regime was caught smuggling weapons out of Cuba on a North Korean vessel in violation of UN sanctions. Cuba lied to the international community about the content of the vessel. The official UN Report on “Cuba-North Korea Illegal Weapons Trafficking,” published in March 2013, revealed “a comprehensive, planned strategy to conceal the existence and nature of the cargo.” The Report concluded, contrary to Cuba’s allegations, that “some, if not all, of the consignment was not expected to be returned to Cuba.”
    In February 2014 former Cuban intelligence official, Uberto Mario, described how the Castro regime is training Venezuelan “Tupamaros,” pro-Maduro groups who violently attack Venezuelan students.


    Whining about Townhall who linked directly to the source doesn't do your argument any good. Especially with someone who does analysis and obviously would be looking at the US Interests and not others.

    Nah, they go off the History, put current facts together. Its like they do this thing called research. Then they give their assessment.
    Last edited by MMC; 04-15-15 at 12:40 PM.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i agree that Guantanamo Bay should be closed. however, i think that normalized trade relations with the biggest economic force in the region is bound to have an impact on the Cuban economy.
    Yes it would

    But don't plan on a wave of business any time soon. Having been there a few times, even the timid Cubans express their disgust for all things American.

    Because a rookie president with a flair or James Bond failed an invasion, and played domestic politics with Russia, Cuba has been made into a boogie man to keep Americans afraid. Everyone who goes there for the first time stands in awe wondering what the fuss is. It is a very small island that just wants to be left alone. They kicked out the severely corrupt mafia backed Batista regime only to have to repel an American invasion [Kennedy it is said narrowly escaped nuclear war by calling off air support. The "missile crisis" was manufactured over Kennedy extending nukes into Turkey so Russia simply said "OK, we'll put some in Cuba dick head.

    On every front by every president Americans have been lied to about Cuba.
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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    How's that lad Sandokan coping with all of this? lol
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Quoted for truth! I don't smoke - I hate smoking - but doggone it, once I see Cuban cigars for sale here stateside, I'm gonna smoke me one and listen to the greatest anti-war song ever written! Funny how that song still applies so strongly today, so long after the Cold War (which cost Cuba so much) was done and over with....



    lifting the embargo on cuba will be like drinking after your 21st birthday, there is no air of misbehaving, and you realize that natty light aint that good.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    No precedent for that, huh?




    None......Right? Not even with the reach around, huh?

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Yet today's Republicans don't have a problem with Nixon and China--as well as Reagan and the Soviet Union.
    And look past the hundreds of thousands of lives of American soldiers who were killed in war due to those two nations.
    Not to mention the remaining Veterans from Korea and Vietnam.

    GOPs say they are concerned with the Cuban people--which is why they want to keep those people destitute .
    LOL !!

    Communism and a dictator keeps them destiutue, not the GOP.

    They trade with just about every other Nation out there.

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