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Thread: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the best path forward for our relations with Cuba is to do everything we can to open it up. communism has failed as usual, and by this point, the embargo is probably doing more to keep the communist dictatorship in place. it has been that way for a while.

    you want to change oppressive dictatorships? **** bombs. drop smartphones, and set up cell towers outside the borders. that should accomplish the task a lot more efficiently than bombs or terror lists. when given access to information, many start to realize that the tiny percentage of the population with power is ****ing up their lives. then they take care of that. the same holds true for capitalism, and for every other system of government. that's why oppressive regimes try to limit access to information, and tightly control communication.
    An interesting idea.

    So a more modern version of ''Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty", and after how many years of continuous broadcasting how many dictators did that topple? No, I'm serious. How many?
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

  2. #12
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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    An interesting idea.

    So a more modern version of ''Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty", and after how many years of continuous broadcasting how many dictators did that topple? No, I'm serious. How many?
    One could very well argue that the influence of western culture, and ideas, into the eastern bloc very well helped topple it, and Radio Free Europe, etc played a pretty big roll in spreading those ideas.
    Just a democratic-socialist "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    An interesting idea.

    So a more modern version of ''Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty", and after how many years of continuous broadcasting how many dictators did that topple? No, I'm serious. How many?
    you really think that the soviet union fell because just one president said some firm words in front of a wall and had a bunch of nukes?

    it's a lot more nuanced than that. the kids wanted blue jeans, rock and roll, and an end to toilet paper lines. the straw that broke the camel's back was extended war and a major drop in the price of oil. sound familiar?

    you can accomplish a lot more by showing the Cuban people just how ****ty their asshole dictator is making their lives, and you do that with information.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    This is little more than Obama playing politics so that he'll have at least one foreign policy 'win' (or appearance of a win anyway) for his legacy; his already badly tarnished legacy.

    It does make me wonder what Cuba did to land on the US Terror List, and if they've changed their behavior or not.
    Yet today's Republicans don't have a problem with Nixon and China--as well as Reagan and the Soviet Union.
    And look past the hundreds of thousands of lives of American soldiers who were killed in war due to those two nations.
    Not to mention the remaining Veterans from Korea and Vietnam.

    GOPs say they are concerned with the Cuban people--which is why they want to keep those people destitute .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Yet today's Republicans don't have a problem with Nixon and China--as well as Reagan and the Soviet Union.
    And look past the hundreds of thousands of lives of American soldiers who were killed in war due to those two nations.
    Not to mention the remaining Veterans from Korea and Vietnam.

    GOPs say they are concerned with the Cuban people--which is why they want to keep those people destitute .
    Please explain how the embargo keeps the Cuban people destitute when Cuba trades with every other nation on the planet and are at capacity in their cigar sales?

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Please explain how the embargo keeps the Cuban people destitute when Cuba trades with every other nation on the planet and are at capacity in their cigar sales?
    Not true. See the Helms-Burton Act. It expands the embargo, and penalizes foreign companies who trade with Cuba.
    Just a democratic-socialist "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    One could very well argue that the influence of western culture, and ideas, into the eastern bloc very well helped topple it, and Radio Free Europe, etc played a pretty big roll in spreading those ideas.
    Yeah, I can see that, an idea being the most incestuous thing to try and stamp out in a totalitarian state. But is that form of mass communication effective at that, was all I was interested in.

    Interesting to note that 'TheDemSocialist' applauding, if I don't miss my guess, the importation, seeding and spreading of capitalistic and liberty ideas in the former Socialistic, Communistic totalitarian states that were once behind the Iron Curtain. Interesting.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    you really think that the soviet union fell because just one president said some firm words in front of a wall and had a bunch of nukes?
    No, I think that the Cold War and military expenses ate up an economy that couldn't support it, and that the West was pretty lucky in that their economy could, but just barely. When it came to SDI, the Russian bottom fell out. Defeated by a superior economic model, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it's a lot more nuanced than that. the kids wanted blue jeans, rock and roll, and an end to toilet paper lines. the straw that broke the camel's back was extended war and a major drop in the price of oil. sound familiar?
    Hmm. Yeah, worrisome that. 'Course a stronger economy would off set that, but, well, the economy has had the additional burden of Obama's bad economic and regulatory policies to content with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    you can accomplish a lot more by showing the Cuban people just how ****ty their asshole dictator is making their lives, and you do that with information.
    Me thinks that this'll generate more opposition bound to and more into political prisons.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Yet today's Republicans don't have a problem with Nixon and China--as well as Reagan and the Soviet Union.
    And look past the hundreds of thousands of lives of American soldiers who were killed in war due to those two nations.
    Not to mention the remaining Veterans from Korea and Vietnam.

    GOPs say they are concerned with the Cuban people--which is why they want to keep those people destitute .
    I guess we'll see how this all pans out, but so far, it seems that Obama's been caving in to demands and getting little, if nothing, in return.

    Cuba has an opportunity to reinvigorate their flagging economy, not the US, so wouldn't that put the onus on them to make some concessions to make this work? To make this happen?
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    No, I think that the Cold War and military expenses ate up an economy that couldn't support it, and that the West was pretty lucky in that their economy could, but just barely. When it came to SDI, the Russian bottom fell out. Defeated by a superior economic model, I think.
    their economic model sucked. extended war in Afghanistan hurt them pretty badly, and the bottom dropping out of the oil market was the death blow. however, seeing that the rest of the world has it better than you makes you a lot less likely to put up with being walled in. the same thing will probably happen in Cuba.

    communist dictatorships don't work. get out of the way, and let the dictatorship fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Hmm. Yeah, worrisome that. 'Course a stronger economy would off set that, but, well, the economy has had the additional burden of Obama's bad economic and regulatory policies to content with.

    Me thinks that this'll generate more opposition bound to and more into political prisons.
    opening up Cuba and ceasing to be a convenient demon will result in less support for an obsolete dictatorship. hook them up to the net, and let the people make a decision. in the meantime, embargoes only punish the people and give the dictators someone else to blame.

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