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Thread: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

  1. #91
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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    AMEN, he could not care less about any beneficial Foreign Policy, a narcissistic a$$ like Obama just wants people to think he is nifty.
    Try as you boys may to frame American support for dictators as a brand new phenomenon with Obama. But we Americans have been kissing dictators asses for a century now!

    Over the last century, the United States government has often provided, and continues to provide today, financial assistance, arms, and technical support to numerous authoritarian regimes across the world. A variety of reasons have been provided to justify the apparent contradictions between support for dictators and the democratic ideals expressed in the American constitution.

    List of authoritarian regimes supported by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Cuba has lent military support for revolutionaries in areas of Latin America and Africa, but I don't think that is the same thing as terrorism. Communists, yes. brutal dictators, yes. Terrorists, perhaps but not really beyond the island itself. Certainly they haven't bothered the U.S. As a person who was raised in Cuba I have personal problems with communism and the Castros but, if I look at things objectively, I guess it probably is a good thing to end the embargo. I'd like to visit. It's been a long while for me.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    Every other nation, except the superpower 90 miles away.
    Yes, every other Nation which would mean Nimby was full of **** when he claimed that the GOP wanted to keep the Cuban people mired in poverty.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yes those were all links and no they didn't go to the same article.
    What links? There are no "links"... The thing at the bottom? Cool thats how they tagged the article. That doesnt mean anything. Its a subject line. What are these "links"?

    Each Page for those listed are articles on Iran. Venezuela, Cuba.....and Hezbollah. Of course you would have known that if you would have checked them out.
    Great. Good for them. Now what does that have to do with the citing of the information in the article itself other than being a subject category?

    Again they would not be putting this out if they didn't have the info. Which much of it was known already.
    Oh yes, a right wing foreign policy think tank would never put out this info.. I mean they would never do that ! Never. I guess thats why they just couldnt provide any of that info where they got it from . Another appeal to authority. But hey its not like they would never make such claims, kinda like how the head of the organization Frank Gaffney would never make ludicrous claims that Saddam was behind the WTC Bombing, and the OKC bombing, he must clearly have that info! Its not like they have claimed that the new Missile Defense logo is proof of "Shariah Law" and that the Muslim Brotherhood has infiltrated the Federal Government! Wait but then again this is the same group that released a report stating that Shariah Law was sweeping across our nation and was a national security threat, but in reality didnt find ****. So you not only want to use the logic fallacy of appealing to authority, but you are appealing to these guys' authority on the basis "they wouldnt make such claims if they didnt have the info"... Yea good one.

    Here let me help you out without Revisionist history.
    Okie dokie.


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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    GOPs say they are concerned with the Cuban people--which is why they want to keep those people destitute .
    What makes you think this "grand deal" will make any difference? All the money goes to the Castro regime.

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Hezbollah supporters living in the U.S. also sent remittances back to Lebanon to fund Hezbollah activities. For example, in Charlotte, NC Hezbollah support networks organized regular parlor meetings held in members' homes where a collection basket was passed around after watching Hezbollah propaganda videos, usually produced by al-Manar. (58)
    That is America. Not Cuba.
    Hezbollah activities in Latin America, however, are by no means limited to the triborder area. Chilean officials have identified several import-export companies, primarily located in free trade zones such as the Iquique Free Trade Zone (ZOFRI) in northern Chile, that are suspected as serving as either front organizations or shell companies for Hezbollah. These include Kalmiar Ltd, Bahamas Ltd., Las Vegas Nevada Ltd., San Francisco Ltd., Saleh Trading Ltd., Frankfourt Ltd., Guarany Ltd., Teen Chile Ltd., and Lucky Crown Ltd. (87)
    That is Chile. Not Cuba.
    Hezbollah members in Venezuela -- centered within the large Lebanese expatriate community on Margarita Island -- helped several members of the Hezbollah cell in Charlotte, North Carolina infiltrate into the United States through Venezuela in 1992. (91) In the free trade area of Maicao, Columbia, Hezbollah is believed to participate in cigarette smuggling and may have operated a clandestine radio station broadcasting the group's propaganda. (92).....snip~
    That is Venezuela.

    According to a report in Italy's respected Corriere della Sera Wednesday, three Hezbollah terrorists operating out of Mexico have left that country to establish a permanent "bridgehead" to the communist island, calling their clandestine operation "The Caribbean Dossier." Twenty-three other terrorists from the Iran-linked terror group are expected to join the operation, which has a startup budget of more than $500,000. Corriere reported that the mission in Cuba is to provide logistical support for upcoming terrorist attacks planned in the hemisphere.

    More disturbingly, they have been tasked to network with Hezbollah's other terrorist cells in Venezuela, Paraguay and Mexico, all in need of logistical support for attacks. But the targets might not all be Latin American. With Hezbollah ordered to meet with, presumably in Havana, Mexico's cartel traffickers that control illegal alien routes into the U.S., it's likely terrorist attacks are in the works for America, too.

    Read More At Investor's Business Daily: Cuba's Terror Smoking Gun - Investors.com
    Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook
    1.)Repeating the same claim just form a different source does not help your claim.

    2.)Also here is the article they are basing this off of: L' Hezbollah sbarca a Cuba «Prepara nuove azioni»
    --A paragraph long, kind of worrysome dont you think? Also no sources? A completely unsourced story. A story as big as Hezbollah setting up a "base" in Cuba, seems like a pretty big ****ing story, one would think have a lot of info on the story.. Also in one of the other sources you mentioned you stated that they were funding Hezbollah (or Hamas, the other sources seemed to be a little confused which one was which, or they thought it was the same organization, who knows) through a charity organization... This one is claiming they are literally setting up a base on the island. So which is it? And also has this story been confirmed? Its been over 3 years since it was reported.. One would think a story such as this to be followed up.. Seems to me another shock piece that is completely unsubstantiated and has no confirmation or concrete proof.. I mean what happened to this report, I mean Glenn Beck cited it, and Michelle Bachmann recited it on her campaign trail, she even mentioned missiles! So what happened? If you ask me it seems that its a unsubstantial report, with no evidence, caused shock, made its round on the conservative blogosphere, and now the Center For Security Policy is getting a little desperate to find some reasons to why Cuba should not be removed from States Sponsors of Terrorism so they are grasping at straws, just like you are.

    3.)****ing serious? Drug cartels? Mexican drug cartels met with the Cuban state and Hezbollah in Havana? And this is based off what? The editorials word? You seriously take this at face value?

    Let me help you out again: "There was no indication that the Cuban government provided weapons or paramilitary training to terrorist groups." Country Reports on Terrorism 2013 State Sponsors of Terrorism Overview

    Also, repeating literally the same claims over and over again and just changing the editorial your cite is not proving anything.


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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    and there again we have a moral issue.

    By what right does the US maintain that base?

    The Cuban government has asked them to leave, refuses payment to underscore that point, so how do you justify it with one of the largest Naval Air Stations 90 miles and 7 minutes away?

    The US attitude toward Cuba is one of a belligerent state.
    If I recall, the lease agreement is such that both parties, the US and Cuba, have to both agree to break the lease. At this point in time, only Cuba wants to break the lease, so it cannot be dissolved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Hypocrisy.

    The United States is founded on the rule of law, fought and fought hard to see that Nazi's were tried fairly and has lectured the world, including Cuba on civil rights while violating the civil rights of foreigners often based on erroneous hear say. Canada's own experience is Mahar Arar.
    And there are no laws, and no international agreements which covers these particular fighting forces. They are not military, and they are not fighting for a particular state. The closest thing that fits would be spy, and they can be summarily shot on discovery or anytime thereafter. There's nothing that specifically covers this particular situation as it hasn't been experienced to this level previously, if I recall. The laws and international agreements haven't caught up with this new form of asymmetric conflict. Had these been in place, I'm pretty sure they'd have been used. As they were not, and the need was great and immediate, something had to be cobbled together quickly. The result is Gitmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    if the US wants to lecture anyone then bring the evidence, at least a tribunal so that justice can be seen to be done.
    The Gitmo military tribunals need to conclude, agreed. They've gone on far too long, and the cases should have been decided quite awhile go. Should the tribunals have concluded that some deserved to be executed, then so be it. But they should have been concluded long ago. On that we agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    You have been lied to repeatedly from "you can keep your plan" to spying and over the years secret wars, and yet by mentioning "terrorist" you abandon your own constitution, imprison people without examinable evidence, access to information, access to counsel, abject torture and hold without independent examination of the "evidence" apparently for life. Despite all these lies, the American public trusts the lies of the CIA who covered up Benghazi to be truthful about what's going on, don't worry about the CIA making mistakes.

    How do we know that after all these years they will return to the fight? Besides, "the fight" is now at least four times larger than it was six years ago, so how is Gitmo helping?
    Gitmo is not the cause for the fight growing as large as it has. The power vacuum that Obama caused with this troop withdrawal is. The case can be made that if the troops would have remained in place, ISIS wouldn't have formed, or at least have been limited to Syria, for Syria to deal with, and frankly, we shouldn't have been hemming in Assad and his forces, rather, we should have allowed him to continue to maintain a lid on what was the precursor to ISIS.

    So that'd be a double foreign policy failure on Obama and SoS Clinton's part. Two pretty much unforgivable and unforced errors, that the world will be paying for for quite some time. You can say the same for Lybia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    That isn't an imperfect solution, that is a crime.

    In 911 you surrendered your own freedom and values, I say the terrorists won by destroying democracy in America.
    A valid point. Perhaps not destroyed, but certainly dented.

    All these claims of hypocrisy are nice and all, and are probably accurate, but in the real, practical world . . . . .

    What's you solution? You've had your rant, all fine and good. Now for the harder part. What would you replace Gitmo with?
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    people are dirt poor and the communist regime only survives on capitalist tourist dollars and patron countries subsidizing it.

    Cubans are paid less than $50 a month, it's survival all these years was due to the USSR subsidizing it, and it know to survive it must legalize private business, and private property, which it is slowly doing.

    It's a failed communist state no matter how many doctores they produce and it runs at a net loss and in debt to it's patron countries.
    I would say that being boycotted by the largest potential trading partner 90 miles away would put a damper on economic growth. However, Cuba is far better than Haiti, which is a nearby neighbor and not Communist. It's literacy rate is the highest in the region.

    In Haiti, Life expectancy at birth: 63.18 years.
    Literacy: 48.7%
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    How many do you want?

    There's a store three blocks from me has top grade Cuban. Send me the money and I will send some to you.

    Or maybe the next time I vacation there
    I know, I know. But the fact that they are illegal not more than thirty miles to the south of where you're at makes them special to us.

    Did you ever see "Smokey and the Bandit" with Burt Reynolds and Sally Field? The premise was smuggling a semi full of Coors beer east of the Mississippi, because at that point in time in the 70's, Coors would not sell their beer east of the Mississippi. So to those of us who lived about thirty miles on the wrong side of the Mississippi (yes, that was me, thirty miles east of Greenville, MS), Coors was something special...even though it's really not that good a beer. The fact that it was smuggled made it special. And so it is with Cuban cigars. One time I did buy some in Vancouver and I sent them to my brother in Mississippi...and he loved them, shared them with his boss.

    I guess it's when something relatively harmless is illegal or otherwise unavailable, that something becomes special to those of us among the Great Unwashed.....
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    lifting the embargo on cuba will be like drinking after your 21st birthday, there is no air of misbehaving, and you realize that natty light aint that good.
    Just as Coors - after they finally began selling east of the Mississippi - was no longer special. I get it. But I'll still want to celebrate America finally getting a clue when it comes to Cuba.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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