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Thread: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

  1. #51
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    All developed countries have traffic deaths they are a sad constant of modern life. Gun deaths are not. Why is this extra lethal firearms factor almost absent in other such countries ? There is also the difference between accident and intent too. Firearms deaths are more often than not intentional and not accidental like auto crashes


    Because America choose to be an armed society where that power was not monopolized by government.

    Just as our society and yours has chosen, has decided, that several thousand children a year will be crushed to a dead pulp in traffic accidents so that the rest of us may have the liberty of zipping down the highway at 70 mph, our society has chosen to tolerate a far smaller number of accidental deaths so that we have the liberty to be armed. Just as we choose not to save several lives a year reducing the pts-per-billion of arsenic in the drinking water, because it would be too expensive.

    Don't like it, don't live here.

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  2. #52
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Guns make suicide easier to expedite too

    People with access to a gun are three times more likely to commit suicide and almost twice as likely to be the victim of a homicide as people without a firearm available.

    Easy Access to Guns Tied to Higher Risk of Suicide, Homicide

    Dubious study. Correlation =/= causality. Suicides come in two versions: the semi-fake suicide cry-for-help (person doesn't really want to die, really wants help, usually takes pills), and the determined-to-die suicide, who usually slits the wrists longwise, or hangs their self in private, or shoots their self if a gun can be had. That the latter would be actively deterred by the absence of guns is debateable.

    Tying gun ownership with homicide doesn't take into account many factors, such as legality, why the person armed themselves to begin with, and what other high risk activity the person is engaged in (like crime).

    No sale sorry.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Guns make suicide easier to expedite too
    That they do. Though from your own article

    Although the review found an association between access to guns and dying from murder or suicide, it did not prove cause-and-effect.
    So it seems like you're trying to oversell correlation as causation.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home

    Right to bare arms? Shouldn't that right come with responsibility not to have a loaded gun where kids can get hold of them? Surely this is common sense. Another senseless and preventable death...face palm

    Gun control? No?
    It does already. Just as driving a car comes with responsibilities. People do not always live up to their responsibilities and sometimes the results are disastrous. And you're right, gun control no.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Who are we supposed to be defending ourselves against that would require us to have such an arsenal. Ze Germans ? , The Zulu's ?, The Mafia ?
    Maybe...we won't know until you beg the United States to save you, again.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ah. "You own guns and have been shooting since childhood and not pushing for any kind of ban." Lovely.

    That's what all the anti-gunners tell us these days. It's like a script. It gains you not one whit of credibility any more.
    It was a statement of fact. We also used to collect bullets out of a dirt bank in a local shooting area when it rains, melt them and make our own wadcutters, and reload pistol ammo. I don't shoot much anymore - would rather fish or bike in my spare time. But if you think I'm lying, then say so. Otherwise take the statement for what it's worth to you, if anything. I'm not losing sleep either way.

    So leaving aside no proof on your part that Washington didn't say what he is widely attributed to have said, let's ask what is it YOU DO WANT to do?
    For all I know Washington sang Rocky Top in his third inaugural address. There is the same evidence he sang that song as uttered the words you attributed to him, so it's OK that I quote him as the songwriter? LOL.

    More gun control I suppose? Just a guess...
    Yeah, your guess is wrong...

    Like I said, I'm not interested in more gun control. And that's why I don't make a habit of posting in the gun forum. More than anything, I can't see how most gun control measures that are possible, such as bans on large magazines, or "assault" rifles will do any good - they're feel good measures given the horse left the barn decades ago. Second, I do value my right to own the several guns I do own. I'd be fine with reasonable restrictions on sale and registration - it's no more scary to me than registering my car and having to take a driver's test before getting a license - but those are issues on the margins of the debate IMO, and bringing them up just serves the interest of gun makers who use fear to sell more guns and ammo. Fact is NRA ought to hire Obama as their permanent lobbyist when he leaves the WH. Just a picture of him sends the skkeeeerreed gun owners into a panic down to the local Walmart to stock up on weapons and ammo. He's sold more guns than any man in U.S. history outside of war time.

    At any rate, I'm much more in favor of education and training than "gun control."
    Last edited by JasperL; 04-14-15 at 01:06 PM.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    [QUOTE=TurtleDude;1064525339]true, but
    I doubt even a 20 year prison sentence will serve as a deterrent to others that stupid[
    /QUOTE]



    It's a good bet that they won't do it again while they're locked up in prison, eh?

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It was a statement of fact. If you think I'm lying, then say so. Otherwise take the statement for what it's worth to you, if anything. I'm not losing sleep either way.



    For all I know Washington sang Rocky Top in his third inaugural address. There is the same evidence he sang that song as uttered the words you attributed to him, so it's OK that I quote him as the songwriter? LOL.



    Yeah, your guess is wrong...

    Like I said, I'm not interested in more gun control. And that's why I don't make a habit of posting in the gun forum. More than anything, I can't see how most gun control measures that are possible, such as bans on large magazines, or "assault" rifles will do any good - they're feel good measures given the horse left the barn decades ago. Second, I do value my right to own the several guns I do own. I'd be fine with reasonable restrictions on sale and registration - it's no more scary to me than registering my car and having to take a driver's test before getting a license - but those are issues on the margins of the debate IMO, and bringing them up just serves the interest of gun makers who use fear to sell more guns and ammo. Fact is NRA ought to hire Obama as their permanent lobbyist when he leaves the WH. Just a picture of him sends the skkeeeerreed gun owners into a panic down to the local Walmart to stock up on weapons and ammo.

    At any rate, I'm much more in favor of education and training than "gun control."



    If I have misjudged you, then you have my apologies. It is true that we seem to have lots of anti-gun people say "oh I own guns, I shoot guns, I don't want to ban guns" and then proceed to advocate, as subtly as they can, for basically every gun control measure under consideration.

    If that's not you, I'm sorry if I tarred you with the wrong brush.

    I too am strongly in favor of education and training. I've long been an advocate of teaching Gun Safety 101 in High School as a free course.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Because America choose to be an armed society where that power was not monopolized by government.
    But you are not shooting your government just each other in your tens of thousands every year

    Just as our society and yours has chosen, has decided, that several thousand children a year will be crushed to a dead pulp in traffic accidents so that the rest of us may have the liberty of zipping down the highway at 70 mph, our society has chosen to tolerate a far smaller number of accidental deaths so that we have the liberty to be armed. Just as we choose not to save several lives a year reducing the pts-per-billion of arsenic in the drinking water, because it would be too expensive
    It appears you choose reckless endangerment of your family over common sense. Firearms in the home are some 7 times more likely to kill a member of the household then any potential intruder. The OP being another sorry example of that.

    https://www.minnpost.com/second-opin...aving-gun-home

    Having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk of death — and that of your spouse and children.
    And it doesn’t matter how the guns are stored or what type or how many guns you own.

    If you have a gun, everybody in your home is more likely than your non-gun-owning neighbors and their families to die in a gun-related accident, suicide or homicide.

    Furthermore, there is no credible evidence that having a gun in your house reduces your risk of being a victim of a crime. Nor does it reduce your risk of being injured during a home break-in.

    The health risks of owning a gun are so established and scientifically non-controvertible that the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a policy statement in 2000 recommending that pediatricians urge parents to remove all guns from their homes.

  10. #60
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    But you are not shooting your government just each other in your tens of thousands every year



    It appears you choose reckless endangerment of your family over common sense. Firearms in the home are some 7 times more likely to kill a member of the household then any potential intruder. The OP being another sorry example of that.

    https://www.minnpost.com/second-opin...aving-gun-home

    Having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk of death — and that of your spouse and children.
    And it doesn’t matter how the guns are stored or what type or how many guns you own.

    If you have a gun, everybody in your home is more likely than your non-gun-owning neighbors and their families to die in a gun-related accident, suicide or homicide.

    Furthermore, there is no credible evidence that having a gun in your house reduces your risk of being a victim of a crime. Nor does it reduce your risk of being injured during a home break-in.

    The health risks of owning a gun are so established and scientifically non-controvertible that the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a policy statement in 2000 recommending that pediatricians urge parents to remove all guns from their homes.

    I don't believe your studies. I believe they are politically biased and another example of correlation =/= causality.

    My extended family and kin run into the hundreds. We are almost all gun owners. TMK none of us in living memory has ever shot anyone by accident or unlawfully. The only successful suicide I recall was a cousin who took pills. However, some of us have indeed defended our persons or homes with firearms.


    In my immediate rural and heavily armed neighborhood (judging by the amount of gunfire I hear on weekends), there have been two instances in the past decade where someone has shot an intruder in their home. TMK in 50 years there have been no accidental shootings. I do not recall any suicides by firearm.


    So you slanted statistics and studies mean little to me.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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