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Thread: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    And of course Texas has the right approach to this issue. Make it a crime for doctors to discuss gun safety with parents with young kids. And thank goodness the NRA is on board with banning conversations about gun safety!

    Texas May Ban Doctors From Discussing Guns With Their Patients | ThinkProgress

    Likewise, I sure hope no physician discusses car seats/seat belts with parents, or the importance of, and how to limit children's access to deadly cleaning chemicals, etc.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    No indeed.

    It's tragic, but more toddlers die from drowning than gunshot. More children die in car crashes than by gunshot. More children die from parental abuse or neglect than by gunshot.

    Solve those common problems and then we can talk about rare outliers like gun accidents, which have been trending lower for decades.
    That's bizarre reasoning. A more rational approach would be to attempt to solve all those problems. It's not as if society can only focus on ONE cause of child death at a time. If your point was there is no problem worth worrying about, just say that. But if it's worth worrying about, then it's worth addressing.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home

    Right to bare arms? Shouldn't that right come with responsibility not to have a loaded gun where kids can get hold of them? Surely this is common sense. Another senseless and preventable death...face palm

    Gun control? No?
    We can't fix all stupid. Nothing wrong with a legal gun in the home. Smart, many would say.

    A loaded gun? A gun accessible to a three-year-old? With a safety either off or so easy to operate that a BABY can do it? A mom who's apparently clueless? Most times you can't fix THAT stupid...


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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's bizarre reasoning. A more rational approach would be to attempt to solve all those problems. It's not as if society can only focus on ONE cause of child death at a time. If your point was there is no problem worth worrying about, just say that. But if it's worth worrying about, then it's worth addressing.

    I wrote a few lines, not a dissertation.

    First of all, there is no gun control law that will actively prevent idiots from doing stupid things, or bad people from doing criminal things.... short of a total ban and confiscation and EVEN THEN you'd mostly just disarm the law-abiding. With 300 million plus guns in the country, that bird has flown; Pandora has opened the box; the Genie will not be stuffed back into the bottle.

    Second, what I wrote is a matter of perspective. People who get hysterical about ONE child dying in a firearm accident don't seem to get the same hysteria about the far greater number of children mashed to a pulp in traffic accidents. The reason why is usually hypocrisy: the child accident is merely an excuse to advance an anti-gun agenda.

    Thirdly, it almost always seem like "addressing the problem" means "more restrictions on law abiding gun owners" that typically wouldn't have made a difference in the case being cited. We've seen that this slope is not merely slippery, it is greased and there are people trying to push. Give the anti-gun elements in government ONE new gun law and they want ten more; let them have NICS and they want registration and AWB's and more. So why bother compromising on an issue involving essential liberty, when the odds are any new "laws" won't solve anything and will simply be used to stage the next agenda item?


    Those with a hidden agenda like to scream "If it saves one child it is worth it!"

    No it isn't. We could save one child each year (or more) by reducing the parts-per-billion of arsenic in drinking water to 10% of its current allowed level... but the cost to revamp our water systems would be enormous, more than our society would be willing to pay. This was already decided a few years ago.

    We could probably eliminate thousands of children dying in traffic accidents by limiting all traffic to 15mph with governors installed in all vehicles... but we don't. The societal cost would be too high in lost time and wages and delays getting goods to markets.

    We as a society decide that a certain number of deaths, yes even child deaths, are acceptable so we can zip down the highway at 70mph or more. So yes, we as a society value certain freedoms higher than a few lives.


    The Second Amendment is about far more than hunting or self-defense. An armed person is a free person; a disarmed person is subject to whatever abuse an armed attacker wishes to inflict, often as not.



    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And of course Texas has the right approach to this issue. Make it a crime for doctors to discuss gun safety with parents with young kids. And thank goodness the NRA is on board with banning conversations about gun safety!
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post


    Likewise, I sure hope no physician discusses car seats/seat belts with parents, or the importance of, and how to limit children's access to deadly cleaning chemicals, etc.
    Gun safety isn't a medical condition and not what I want my grandkids' doctors doing when medical care is so costly and hard to schedule.If the doctors are worried about gun safety they can hand of gun safety pamphlets from the NRA who have very comprehensive gun safety programs all over the country.


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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home

    Right to bare arms? Shouldn't that right come with responsibility not to have a loaded gun where kids can get hold of them? Surely this is common sense. Another senseless and preventable death...face palm

    Gun control? No?
    Of course it comes with responsibility. But this is no call for a gun grab. "Preventable death"? Non-slip mats in the shower would save more lives than grabbing all the guns. You crusading for that too? Water and gravity are responsible for far more "preventable deaths". So why use that line here? It's nothing more than emotional fodder for political propaganda.
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    WTF was this "mother" doing and why did she not know the gun was lying around? It is like junkie homes with kids and there is heroin and needles laying about throughout the house.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron River View Post
    Gun safety isn't a medical condition and not what I want my grandkids' doctors doing when medical care is so costly and hard to schedule.If the doctors are worried about gun safety they can hand of gun safety pamphlets from the NRA who have very comprehensive gun safety programs all over the country.
    And we need a LAW making it illegal to discuss those things? Give me a break. I don't know your kids, but I imagine they're quite capable of hearing a few words about gun safety with no long term psychological damage, and if they really don't want to hear it, they should be capable of telling their doctor that without needing the state to step in and BAN that discussion. Maybe the NRA could work with physicians instead of treat them as the enemy for discussing....GASP!!!!l GUN SAFETY WITH PARENTS OF YOUNG CHILDREN!! THE HORROR!!!

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I wrote a few lines, not a dissertation.

    First of all, there is no gun control law that will actively prevent idiots from doing stupid things, or bad people from doing criminal things.... short of a total ban and confiscation and EVEN THEN you'd mostly just disarm the law-abiding. With 300 million plus guns in the country, that bird has flown; Pandora has opened the box; the Genie will not be stuffed back into the bottle.

    Second, what I wrote is a matter of perspective. People who get hysterical about ONE child dying in a firearm accident don't seem to get the same hysteria about the far greater number of children mashed to a pulp in traffic accidents. The reason why is usually hypocrisy: the child accident is merely an excuse to advance an anti-gun agenda.

    Thirdly, it almost always seem like "addressing the problem" means "more restrictions on law abiding gun owners" that typically wouldn't have made a difference in the case being cited. We've seen that this slope is not merely slippery, it is greased and there are people trying to push. Give the anti-gun elements in government ONE new gun law and they want ten more; let them have NICS and they want registration and AWB's and more. So why bother compromising on an issue involving essential liberty, when the odds are any new "laws" won't solve anything and will simply be used to stage the next agenda item?


    Those with a hidden agenda like to scream "If it saves one child it is worth it!"

    No it isn't. We could save one child each year (or more) by reducing the parts-per-billion of arsenic in drinking water to 10% of its current allowed level... but the cost to revamp our water systems would be enormous, more than our society would be willing to pay. This was already decided a few years ago.

    We could probably eliminate thousands of children dying in traffic accidents by limiting all traffic to 15mph with governors installed in all vehicles... but we don't. The societal cost would be too high in lost time and wages and delays getting goods to markets.

    We as a society decide that a certain number of deaths, yes even child deaths, are acceptable so we can zip down the highway at 70mph or more. So yes, we as a society value certain freedoms higher than a few lives.
    OK, then your point is gun accidents and deaths for children isn't a problem worth worrying about, or at least not worth worrying MORE about. That's fine. I was just pointing out that there is no need to solve problem X before moving on to problem Y.

    The Second Amendment is about far more than hunting or self-defense. An armed person is a free person; a disarmed person is subject to whatever abuse an armed attacker wishes to inflict, often as not.

    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
    George Washington
    First President of the United States
    I don't feel like getting into a discussion about the broader issue of the the 2nd Amendment. I own several guns and have been shooting since I was a child, so I'm not pushing for any kind of ban.

    But you lose credibility citing made up quotes attributed to the Founders to prove a point. I've seen that quote many times, and have never been able to find any evidence Washington ever said those words, or anything close to it.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I'm not sure that I agree that making a law that obligates a firearm owner to "reasonable" secure his weapon where children cannot get to it or face a fine/ prison won't motivate anyone, but having said that, I'm much, much more in favor in owners changing the culture of what is acceptable and what is not. Laws can be the start, but it requires people to do the rest if it is going to be truly effective, but one thing I do know is the justification of doing nothing because owners will do it anyway isn't the right way to go either.

    Seat belts are one of the best examples I can think of of laws that morph into effective culture change. When I was a kid no one wore them, today a parent with a child in the car without a seat belt is scorned by other members of society.

    Enough people were motivated by the law initially, but later on it became an idea enforced by the reasonable expectations of society. If you rescinded the seat belt law, I think a vast majority of people would still wear their seat belts due to societal pressure.

    We need the same kind of culture change when it comes to firearms.
    given there are more firearms now than at any time in AMerican history and accidental shootings are decreasing, I think this has happened
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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