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Thread: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

  1. #221
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't understand why people are talking about police, then.
    Ok, honestly, I'm involved in too many gun threads, for the second time in as many day's I've got my threads confused. My bad.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.”

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Death penalty

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Ok, honestly, I'm involved in too many gun threads, for the second time in as many day's I've got my threads confused. My bad.
    Just don't do what I did once and submit a post intended for the Basement up here

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This is absolutely tragic, the death of a child, especially so violently and horrifically is a haunting thought as a father myself.

    But you can't legislate against stupidity.

    Whoever left that gun where it was should face negligent homicide.
    Yep. What he said. ^


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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The link does matter, if you can't prove that the gun used on the victim is the same gun owned by the victim, then your claim of "likliness" falls apart. Any reserch you use which can't prove the link is faulty.
    What gun would a person killing himself use? Where would he get this gun and why not use the one he or she owns?

    And why would households that own guns be more likely to be invaded by gun wielding murderers, AND be more likely to be killed by gun wielding murderers. I thought having a gun at home protected people from gun wielding murderers, but households with a gun are more likely to have someone in the house murdered. Instead, having a gun at home increases your odds of getting murdered. If the murder weapon isn't the homeowner's gun, then having one doesn't protect anyone, it just makes it more likely an intruder with a gun kills them. Either way, your risk of death goes up.

    That's the logical argument. If you care to address it, be my guest.

    I'm not spending the time to go into detail on spicific reserch subjects until you prove you're worth the time by using valid reserch for once. If you keep asking I'll just report you for spamming.
    LOL - a paper published in the Annals of Internal Medicine as is invalid 'reserch.'

    And if you want to report me for spamming, run to the mods for cover, because I ask you to support a specific claim - "In fact, virtually all of those deaths were due to guns being brought in by criminals getting into the home." - suit yourself. I don't need help from the moderators to debate.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What gun would a person killing himself use? Where would he get this gun and why not use the one he or she owns?
    Valid questions. Your sources don't identify who owned the gun or in what way the person "had access" to it. In fact a couple of your sources even admitted that "access to firearms" simply meant that they owned one, not that the gun was immediately available to them at the time of the incident. One of your sources admitted that the person didn't even have to be at home where the gun was stored in order to meet their definition of "access to firearms".

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And why would households that own guns be more likely to be invaded by gun wielding murderers, AND be more likely to be killed by gun wielding murderers.
    You're asking me to speculate here because you see that your sources do not provide that information.

    If I were to assume your premise that there is a correlation between owning a gun and being more likely to become a victim of gun-related violence, I would suggest to you that the person was first at a higher risk and then bought the gun because of that higher risk. Your sources don't say which came first, the gun or the risk. A person may first become suicidal and then buy a gun to carry it out. A person may first enter into a higher crime risk area and then buy a gun to defend against it. Your sources don't say either way, and that's one way in which your sources are faulty: incomplete data.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I thought having a gun at home protected people from gun wielding murderers, but households with a gun are more likely to have someone in the house murdered.
    Whoever told you that, lied to you.

    Owning a fire extinguisher doesn't mean you're less likely to have a fire, and if someone you trust suggested a correlation between owning a fire extinguisher and suffering a small fire you would no doubt come here and argue that fire extinguishers cause fires.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Instead, having a gun at home increases your odds of getting murdered.
    Your sources don't say the gun causes the increased risk. The news reporting agency citing those studies do, but not the studies themselves. At best the study tries to paint a correlation, but non of the studies you've posted say the gun caused the crime. You've been duped by a biased media.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL - a paper published in the Annals of Internal Medicine as is invalid 'reserch.'
    Correct. The Annals of Internal Medicine performed incomplete research and also made claims which weren't supported by their data. That's invalid research and only degrades the reputation of the Annals of Internal Medicine.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-16-15 at 11:47 AM.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Your sources don't say the gun causes the increased risk. The news reporting agency citing those studies do, but not the studies themselves. At best the study tries to paint a correlation, but non of the studies you've posted say the gun caused the crime. You've been duped by a biased media.
    Not only that, but suicides are lumped in with gun violence statistics. This is the root of all falsehood in statistics about gun ownership which is used to distort the facts by conflating gun ownership with cause of death. You may be more likely to use a gun in a suicide attempt if you own one, but that doesn't mean those people wouldn't have found another way to do the deed in the absence of a gun, i.e. the gun doesn't cause the suicide attempt. But then that gets logged as "gun violence" and then labeled "a murder" to those simply looking to grind an axe instead of pursue any kind of truth.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Ive said this before and Ill say it again, we love guns but they dont love us. if we want to live with guns we have accept the we will die with them.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by hifijohn View Post
    Ive said this before and Ill say it again, we love guns but they dont love us. if we want to live with guns we have accept the we will die with them.
    Just like electricity.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home

    Right to bare arms? Shouldn't that right come with responsibility not to have a loaded gun where kids can get hold of them? Surely this is common sense. Another senseless and preventable death...face palm

    Gun control? No?
    By this logic we would have banned automobiles and bathrooms a long time ago.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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