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Thread: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

  1. #211
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I never said laws didnt matter, I said they dont stop carelessness and irresponsibility. Yes they can reduce *some* types of accidents or behavior but then you have to weigh those against overall freedom. I do see the point however where you point out that we cannot use the justice system to punish people for those things if we dont have laws, so I can see value there.
    Look, I see the value in gun ownership (I own several), I just think the extremes on both sides have poisoned any chances of having a rational conversation. Any time I try to advance what I think are common sense ideas, the pro crowd complains that it's nothing but an attempt to incrementally take away their rights and freedoms claiming the goal is to stip them of their rights entirely. The anti crowd can be just as irrational, in the mean time 3 yo's shoot 1 yo's and neither gets any justice.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.”

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I have apparently missed you're example, but in most cases training does matter.
    Was the mother in OP a cop, for police training to then be an issue we need to discuss?

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But no links....
    Links have been given in the respective posts I've been quoting. Do your due-diligence to keep up or I'll just leave you behind.

    Not one source given, by you or flogger, has linked the gun used in homicide with the gun owned by the victim. No even one study. In fact, a few studies even admitted that they couldn't say they were the same gun at all.

    You use faulty research and biased reporting agencies to perpetuate your lie. That you cannot argue your position honestly says a lot about your position.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-15-15 at 02:12 PM.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Links have been given in the respective posts I've been quoting. Do your due-diligence to keep up or I'll just leave you behind.

    Not one source given, by you or flogger, has linked the gun used in homicide with the gun owned by the victim. No even one study. In face, a few studies even admitted that they couldn't say they were the same gun at all.

    You use faulty research and biased reporting agencies to perpetuate your lie. That you cannot argue your position honestly says a lot about your position.
    I've argued my position honestly, including explaining why this link between gun owner and the gun used to commit suicide or murder really cannot matter. You haven't even had the courtesy to respond to those points.

    And you made this statement: In fact, virtually all of those deaths were due to guns being brought in by criminals getting into the home. Link for that is missing.

    When you respond to legitimate points and back up your own assertions, then you can start lecturing me about honesty in this discussion.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Training has nothing to do with some things. Like wearing seat belts and leaving loaded guns where kids can get them. The example was a local cop who left a loaded gun in the glove compartment with a 7 yr old and a 3 yr old and went into a store. The 7 yr old killed his 3 yr old sister.

    IMO it was irresponsible to even leave kids that age alone. And btw, the dept chose not to charge him. It took the public speaking out and contacting them before they did.
    I agree, it's more a question of responsibility and the consequences of negligence.

    Since everyone (not necessarily you) loves to use cars as the ubiquitous counter to gun ownership, irrisponsibility in a car comes with legal consequences to the owner, even if the driver didn't mean to hurt anyone with their car, negligence is enough to convict someone and punish them. Why doesn't a person deserve to be punished when they are negligent and irresponsible and allow a weapon to fall into the hands of a child??

    If I left my car running with my 3 yo unrestrained and my 3 yo managed to get it in gear and he ran over his sister, would I not be negligent and responsible??? Shouldn't I be punished???

    The fact that gun ownership is a right must be balanced against what a gun is. It's not "The right to have and blow bubbles", it is the right to have and bare arms". Arms are tools created to project force over ling distances efficiently. Given their ease of use (even a 3 yo can do it!) and the force projected asking for common sense rules I don't think is asking too much.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.”

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Was the mother in OP a cop, for police training to then be an issue we need to discuss?
    Nope, in her case it was pure negligence and for that negligence she should be punished.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.”

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Nope, in her case it was pure negligence and for that negligence she should be punished.
    I don't understand why people are talking about police, then.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I've argued my position honestly...
    If that were true then you would never have linked to faulty research.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If that were true then you would never have linked to faulty research.
    You're hilarious. What's even funnier is you pick and choose what to address (the irrelevant) and ignore the substantive comments, then lecture others about being unable to make honest arguments.

    When are you going to back up this: In fact, virtually all of those deaths were due to guns being brought in by criminals getting into the home.

    When are you going to address my comments about why this link between gun used in the crime and the gun owned by the person killed doesn't matter?

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    When are you going to address my comments about why this link between gun used in the crime and the gun owned by the person killed doesn't matter?
    The link does matter, if you can't prove that the gun used on the victim is the same gun owned by the victim, then your claim of "likliness" falls apart. Any reserch you use which can't prove the link is faulty.

    I'm not spending the time to go into detail on spicific reserch subjects until you prove you're worth the time by using valid reserch for once. If you keep asking I'll just report you for spamming.

    Use valid reserch.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-15-15 at 07:52 PM.

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