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Thread: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

  1. #11
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Perhaps, but more importantly, now that it's happened, doesn't the owner deserve to be punished for failing to secure his weapon under the law?
    if the facts meet the standards under the law then sure

    but claiming punishing this person will deter others is contrary to logic
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if the facts meet the standards under the law then sure

    but claiming punishing this person will deter others is contrary to logic
    I'm not sure that I agree that making a law that obligates a firearm owner to "reasonable" secure his weapon where children cannot get to it or face a fine/ prison won't motivate anyone, but having said that, I'm much, much more in favor in owners changing the culture of what is acceptable and what is not. Laws can be the start, but it requires people to do the rest if it is going to be truly effective, but one thing I do know is the justification of doing nothing because owners will do it anyway isn't the right way to go either.

    Seat belts are one of the best examples I can think of of laws that morph into effective culture change. When I was a kid no one wore them, today a parent with a child in the car without a seat belt is scorned by other members of society.

    Enough people were motivated by the law initially, but later on it became an idea enforced by the reasonable expectations of society. If you rescinded the seat belt law, I think a vast majority of people would still wear their seat belts due to societal pressure.

    We need the same kind of culture change when it comes to firearms.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.”

  3. #13
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    And how many children get in cars each day? Tens of millions?, how many children handle loaded weapons each day? A few less?

    Trying to equate the two is silly.
    It would be more accurate to equate the number of children in homes with firearms to the number of children that get into a car every day.

    Another fun statistic to look at is drowning deaths, specifically in swimming pools. According to the CDC:

    Children: Children ages 1 to 4 have the highest drowning rates. In 2009, among children 1 to 4 years old who died from an unintentional injury, more than 30% died from drowning.1,2 Among children ages 1 to 4, most drownings occur in home swimming pools.2 Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects).1 Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes.1


    Seeing as how there are far more guns in the US than there are swimming pools, I'd have to say it's downright irresponsible to let your child even get near one! A swimming pool, that is.
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I'm not sure that I agree that making a law that obligates a firearm owner to "reasonable" secure his weapon where children cannot get to it or face a fine/ prison won't motivate anyone, but having said that, I'm much, much more in favor in owners changing the culture of what is acceptable and what is not. Laws can be the start, but it requires people to do the rest if it is going to be truly effective, but one thing I do know is the justification of doing nothing because owners will do it anyway isn't the right way to go either.

    Seat belts are one of the best examples I can think of of laws that morph into effective culture change. When I was a kid no one wore them, today a parent with a child in the car without a seat belt is scorned by other members of society.

    Enough people were motivated by the law initially, but later on it became an idea enforced by the reasonable expectations of society. If you rescinded the seat belt law, I think a vast majority of people would still wear their seat belts due to societal pressure.

    We need the same kind of culture change when it comes to firearms.
    Using law to change culture is an assholish approach, imho.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    I don't see the need for punishment in cases like this; I don't think they are likely to do it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Using law to change culture is an assholish approach, imho.
    Sometimes you have to fight asshole with asshole.
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I don't see the need for punishment in cases like this; I don't think they are likely to do it again.



    Sometimes you have to fight asshole with asshole.
    Passing laws to create social change seems pretty fascist to me.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Passing laws to create social change seems pretty fascist to me.
    Have you got a better way? I don't form my political views based on labels, I form them based on effectiveness. Not everything fascism did was bad. For example, if all the stupid people let their kids play with guns there will be less stupid people. There's a fine line between eugenics and personal responsibility.
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    Have you got a better way? I don't form my political views based on labels, I form them based on effectiveness. Not everything fascism did was bad. For example, if all the stupid people let their kids play with guns there will be less stupid people. There's a fine line between eugenics and personal responsibility.
    If all I cared about was how I could get people to do what I want then I would indeed support forcing my will on others through law. That is however not something I value and instead prefer bringing people to my position through reason and understanding. It may not be as effective, but is far more civilized.

  9. #19
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    As soon as I saw the title of the thread I knew EXACTLY what was going to be said in this thread. I was not the slightest bit disappointed/surprised that I was exactly correct. From the OP on.

    Disgusting.
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  10. #20
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    Re: One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home.

    I wonder why "People will be held accountable for this tragedy", while other tragedies are just considered "accidents".

    Accident:
    A Kentucky mother stepped outside of her home just for a few minutes, but it was long enough for her 5-year-old son to accidentally shoot and kill his 2-year-old sister with the .22-caliber rifle he got for his birthday, state officials said.

    The shooting that took the life of Caroline Sparks in southern Kentucky has been ruled an accident, Kentucky State Police Trooper Billy Gregory said.
    5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister - CNN.com
    Accident:
    FAYETTE COUNTY, Pa. —

    A 2-year-old boy was shot in the head late Thursday night at a home on 2nd Street in Luzerne Township, Fayette County.
    Police said the boy accidentally shot himself after finding a gun, owned by his stepfather, in his mother's purse. According to police, charges are not being filed, and the shooting was an accident.
    Police: Boy, 2, accidentally shoots self after finding gun in... | www.wpxi.com
    Seeking to arrest:
    CLEVELAND (Reuters) - A 3-year-old fatally shot a 1-year-old at a Cleveland house during the weekend, according to police, who said they are seeking to arrest the adult who left the gun in the home.
    One-year-old shot dead by 3-year old in Cleveland home
    The word accident doesn't even appear in the OPs article or headline.

    One of these things is not like the others
    Last edited by Utility Man; 04-14-15 at 04:30 AM.
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    I feel the same way. liberal government doing the same stupid behavior over and over again....the Pavlov's Dog of the nation.
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    The russians did the right thing..

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