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Thread: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And they have much less chance of penetrating their target and harming innocent bystanders. I prefer the philosophy that it's better to do real harm to suspects (since the bar for lethal force is a high one, despite the POS cop in this OP) than to do incidental harm to innocent people in the vicinity.

    Again, it is a life or death situation...so death is the presumed outcome when *lethal* force is warranted.
    I'll say again, what about the misses that outnumber the hits by 2:1, what if they hit innocent bystanders? The rational you're using for HP's is exactly the opposite when dealing with projectiles that don't hit a suspect first.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What percent of FMJs miss? Are you claiming that the type of bullet affects accuracy? And how much is the secondary damage to bystanders by fragmented bullets?
    No I'm saying that wounds caused by FMJ's are less devastating, which is why we don't use them in war.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Sure, and I agree, the problem is, I was referring to the misses. NYC miss rate of 66% is pretty representative of the national miss rate for all the statistics I can find.
    Several years ago several NYPD cops began shooting at a gun wielding suspect on the streets, with crowds, and IIRC hit at least 2 bystanders.

    Of course, those Glock New York triggers did not help, either.

    Still pretty pathetic marksmanship.

    ETA - This NYPD shoot bystanders; unarmed target gets charged with assault - Salon.com
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    To risk not getting crucified in the public, risking their careers and to prevent their towns from being looted and set on-fire, chiefs will have a propensity to fire or arrest officers before all the facts are known.
    I haven't noticed this as a common occurrence. Usually the chiefs will defend the accused officer (which is understandable usually). This most recent incident is not a good example. Any sensible chief would have done the same as this one. The evidence is enough to arrest the man, officer or not.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Military probably uses FMJs because they're cheaper.

    No idea if that's true but it wouldnt surprise me.
    Actually, I have in previous posts attributed the use of FMJ's to the Geneva Convention, turns out I was mistaken, it goes back to the The Hague Convention of 1899 that prohibits bullets that expand or flatten easily within the body.

    From a warfare point of view, a wounded soldier who is incapacitated is better than a dead soldier as the wounded require men and resources to care for.

    For police FMJ's are less likely to kill immediately than HP's, this is both good and bad. If you are in a gun fight with an armed suspect and you shoot him and he dies, that's good, if you miss and it hits a bystander, that's bad. If you accidently shoot the wrong person, FMJ could be the difference between aggravated assault and manslaughter/ murder.

    I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. perhaps cops should keep both FMJ's and HP's, maybe HP's save lives as they are more likely to be stopped by walls, car doors ect....I'm just saying, this isn't a slam dunk issue.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I'll say again, what about the misses that outnumber the hits by 2:1, what if they hit innocent bystanders? The rational you're using for HP's is exactly the opposite when dealing with projectiles that don't hit a suspect first.
    And what # of those misses did hit bystanders? And how many weapon discharges happened inside or towards buildings or cars where the HPs would indeed save innocent lives?

    I remember that one incident outside the Empire State Building a few yrs ago...that was outside and like 9 bystanders were hit One does pray that's an aberration but I dont know. Cops do miss alot. IMO the Empire State incident was a training problem, not a shooting problem. But HPs help protect anyone with some sort of barrier between the cops and them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Several years ago several NYPD cops began shooting at a gun wielding suspect on the streets, with crowds, and IIRC hit at least 2 bystanders.

    Of course, those Glock New York triggers did not help, either.

    Still pretty pathetic marksmanship.

    ETA - This NYPD shoot bystanders; unarmed target gets charged with assault - Salon.com
    Anecdotal, but yea, I know lots of cops, including my uncle-in-law who is chief of Police in Bowling Green VA. Of the cops I know (friends and family) they all say the same thing. A lot of cops don't practice, and even more don't practice under stress. Shooting a paper target at 30' and shotting a person who's trying to kill you is much, much different. Training in high stress environments is a must and is one of the reasons cops do such bizarre things when they are under stress.

    Kinda like being able to throw a football 50 yards does not make one a good quarterback.
    Last edited by csbrown28; 04-10-15 at 12:51 PM.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And again, this has already been debated.
    No impact injury sustained contributed to his not being able to breath.
    This was already shown.
    What are you referring to? Who and what proved the coroner wrong?

    Wrong.
    This has already been debated and you are far from reality.
    I must say, it is horribly boring to debate you and reminds me why I ignored you in the first place. You give no substance. You declare someone as "WRONG!" with no backing. *Yawn*



    If it is an image of his injuries, you are wrong.
    Yes. Injuries delivered by the officers.


    Your position is lame, and just shows you are incapable of understanding of the circumstance involved.
    Once again, *YAWN*
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The sun rises in the East. A cop lied about something. Water is wet.
    king is naked too
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right. perhaps cops should keep both FMJ's and HP's, maybe HP's save lives as they are more likely to be stopped by walls, car doors ect....I'm just saying, this isn't a slam dunk issue.
    Most issues are not black and white, as much as people on Internet forums and politicians would like to believe they are.

    Most require a balance of weighing all the factors and then making the best decision. IMO that's how they chose HPs.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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