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Thread: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Most deaths by american cops are from traffic accidents, by far.
    We have traffic accidents in the UK too but as far as I am aware we havent lost a cop in the line of duty in the last 2 years. You lost 126 just last year alone

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I have several weapons and I'm familiar with the different properties of each, though I'm by no means an expert, I have shot 1000's or rounds from various weapons. I don't disagree with your assessment, but when it comes to police are HP's the best choice?

    Let me offer a few counter-points...

    So far as collateral damage, you make a point and with rifles this might be especially important, but what are the ballistics of a an FMJ 9mm round after traveling through a person? Frankly I'm not sure.

    Furthermore, if we're really worried about collateral damage, let's look at the video in the OP. Would you agree, that generally speaking that the situation was about as good as a police officer can hope to get when shooting at a perp?

    It's daytime.

    It is extremely open.

    There are no other people or loud noises to distract him.

    His suspect has his back to him, thus he has no fear of being attacked.

    The suspect is running, about the only thing that makes this shot more difficult.

    He is standing firm

    Takes his time and takes aim

    He is 20ft away

    The target is "running" away in a straight line.

    Hopefully we can agree that as far as police shootings go, these are some of the best circumstances (from the persperspective of being able to hit your target) that a police officer can hope to get.

    So if your argument is that HP's prevent collateral damage because they stop in the body, what about the 4 bullets that miss? Im calling the ear shot a "miss" from the perspective that the bullet would have had virtually all of it's lethal velocity after striking his ear.

    So under some of the best conditions a police officer will face we have a 50% hit rate. Now we have 50% of the HP's flying around to hit collateral targets.

    Look at the idiot who asked the guy for his licence then when he reaches in the car he takes 4 shots. There is a store and other cars behind him. He hit his target 1 time from 10ft.

    South Carolina trooper shot unarmed man, police say - CNN.com

    I suspect that if we were to look at the accuracy of police I'd be shocked, nationwide if it exceeded 40% [EDIT"] So below you can see I posed that in 11 years of study, NY city cops missed their targets (when not being fired upon) 66% of the time.

    That said think of all the HP's that aren't stopped by a body left to fly until they hit a target.

    So your response might be that HP's once they hit something, like drywall, or wood, or a car door will come to a stop faster, and that is an argument, but out in the open if they hit collateral targets they will do more damage to bystanders.

    Perhaps the best argument is that the choice to shoot should be a last resort and the decision to shoot be taken more judiciously. Police work is dangerous work. I know. I went to school to be a cop and I went on ride alongs for two years. I saw first hand what it's like. Frankly I think the police have an almost impossible job (the reason I decided not to do it) and I'm willing to say that the blame doesn't rest entirely on the officers shoulders. Often they are asked to do to much with too little. The system as a whole is largely to blame. Training is inadequate and the suck it up, militaristic culture isn't what we want when dealing with the public on a day-to-day basis imo...

    Ok, this turned into a much longer rant than I intended....
    They are "more likely" to kill a bystander. That is your argument? Never mind that the risk will be greater with a perfect shot? That an fmj will go through more and create more bystanders? Even on the other side of a wall? Seriously?

    The only logical round is HP. It stops. Maybe not fast, but faster than an fmj.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    I can't help but idly speculate about what if this incident were something other than what it appears.

    What if Slager and the second cop to appear in the video were after Scott on behalf of a bookie, or a drug dealer, or someone else.

    I am not saying that this is the case nor that I have seen any evidence which would lead me to believe that such a scenario was true.
    I'm only saying that my mind wanders to that place.
    The inspiration for my unfounded, made-for-tv-movie speculation is the seemingly casual manner of Slage and that other officer when it appears that Slage is dropping what may be the Taser by the body of Scott.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    What if he thought he was a danger because he was a black man running loose?
    He'll get his chance to make his case w/e it may be.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    He'll get his chance to make his case w/e it may be.
    Well at the very least it will be a salutary lesson to those who are tawdry with their child maintenance payments.

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL - A widely known right-wing opinion writer calling politifact biased.....shocked I tell you....shocked! Maybe Fox and the National review getting called out on their lies prompts his wrath?


    US News is right wing?


    I really don't care, you are free to live in delusion all you want. *shrug*



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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    US News is right wing?


    I really don't care, you are free to live in delusion all you want. *shrug*



    Pants On Fire: PolitiFact Tries To Hide That It Rated 'True' in 2008 Obamacare's 'Keep Your Health Plan' Promise - Forbes



    But you keep livin the dream man. /facepalm
    Your link was an op-ed piece written by Peter Roff - a well known right-wing opinion writer.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Of course there is the cop script about what to write in the police report so you can get away with murder. I was in fear for my life.

    The second thing I notice about these police shootings is that they shoot way too many rounds. It seems to part of the police "script" that if you have to shoot someone, be sure he's DEAD so there is only ONE version of what happened before the grand jury. Dead men can't testify against you.

    In this case, the victim was never a threat, but he certainly didn't need to be fired at 8 times. How many police shooting victims survive the shooting?

    It's despicable.

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    They are "more likely" to kill a bystander. That is your argument? Never mind that the risk will be greater with a perfect shot? That an fmj will go through more and create more bystanders? Even on the other side of a wall? Seriously?

    The only logical round is HP. It stops. Maybe not fast, but faster than an fmj.
    No my argument is that 66% of HP's miss their target, which means that bystanders that are hit are injured more grievously then they would have if hit with FMJ.

    Look, this isn't a point I really want to stand on. It might be the case that it's the difference between getting hit by a car and a bus, but my understanding is that FMJ's cause less damage than do HP's and with 66% or more (LA county police miss 73% of their shots fired). Add to that the undocumented numbers of people shot on purpose who were innocent, I'm saying it's worth having a conversation about how badly we want the bullets we use to harm the people we shoot. Again, not that I disagree with you about the millitary, but the fact is, we use FMJ's in war because the don't cause the same kind of damage that HP's do, but we use them on our own people in situations where the police often don't have enough information to make decisions.

    The government doesn't keep handy statistics about the number of peoples who's homes are raided by mistake, the number of people that are shot by bullets that miss their targets, the number of people shot because they looked like someone else......But here is a site of alleged accidental incedents that often involve shootings.

    https://the7thpwr.wordpress.com/acci...ice-shootings/
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Your link was an op-ed piece written by Peter Roff - a well known right-wing opinion writer.


    I can keep going if you want, but I think you are going to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your left agendad world view.


    read the "analysis"

    PolitiFact.com - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "University of Minnesota political science professor Eric Ostermeier did an analysis of 511 selected PolitiFact stories issued from January 2010 through January 2011. He said "PolitiFact has generally devoted an equal amount of time analyzing Republicans (191 statements, 50.4 percent) as they have Democrats (179 stories, 47.2 percent)..." Republican officeholders were considered by Politifact to have made substantially more "false" or "pants on fire" statements than their Democratic counterparts. Of 98 statements PolitiFact judged "false" or "pants on fire" from partisan political figures, 74 came from Republicans (76 percent) compared to 22 from Democrats (22 percent) during the selected period reviewed. Ostermeier concluded "By levying 23 Pants on Fire ratings to Republicans over the past year compared to just 4 to Democrats, it appears the sport of choice is game hunting - and the game is elephants."[24] The study was criticized by PolitiFact editor Bill Adair and the MinnPost, with Adair responding, "Eric Ostermeier's study is particularly timely because we've heard a lot of charges this week that we are biased — from liberals ... So we're accustomed to hearing strong reactions from people on both ends of the political spectrum. We are a news organization and we choose which facts to check based on news judgment.[25] A writer with the left-leaning magazine The Nation argued that findings like this are a reflection of "fact-checkers simply doing their job... Republicans today just happen to be more egregiously wrong...."[26] A writer with the right-leaning Human Events claimed that after looking at Politifact's work on a case by case basis a pattern emerged whereby Politifact critiqued straw man claims; that is, "dismissed the speaker’s claim, made up a different claim and checked that instead." The conservative magazine noted Politifact's use of language such as "[although the speaker] used [a specific] phrase... in his claim, [it] could fairly be interpreted to mean [something more general that is false]..." Human Events cited Bryan White's PolitiFactBias blog to state that "from the end of that partnership [with the Congressional Quarterly] to the end of 2011, the national PolitiFact operation has issued 119 Pants on Fire ratings for Republican or conservative claims, and only 13 for liberal or Democratic claims".[27]"



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