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Thread: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    You would also have to figure out who is disproportionately in poverty, under-eductated, and come from broken homes.


    I don't disagree. Plus there is a tone more things one would have to look at as well.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    HP would would stop the target faster. They also would reduce over penetration. We SHOULD allow them in war. Especially in places where targets won't have armor. FMJs will just go right through. HP rounds are the only logical defensive round. They reduce risk to bystanders.
    I have several weapons and I'm familiar with the different properties of each, though I'm by no means an expert, I have shot 1000's or rounds from various weapons. I don't disagree with your assessment, but when it comes to police are HP's the best choice?

    Let me offer a few counter-points...

    So far as collateral damage, you make a point and with rifles this might be especially important, but what are the ballistics of a an FMJ 9mm round after traveling through a person? Frankly I'm not sure.

    Furthermore, if we're really worried about collateral damage, let's look at the video in the OP. Would you agree, that generally speaking that the situation was about as good as a police officer can hope to get when shooting at a perp?

    It's daytime.

    It is extremely open.

    There are no other people or loud noises to distract him.

    His suspect has his back to him, thus he has no fear of being attacked.

    The suspect is running, about the only thing that makes this shot more difficult.

    He is standing firm

    Takes his time and takes aim

    He is 20ft away

    The target is "running" away in a straight line.

    Hopefully we can agree that as far as police shootings go, these are some of the best circumstances (from the persperspective of being able to hit your target) that a police officer can hope to get.

    So if your argument is that HP's prevent collateral damage because they stop in the body, what about the 4 bullets that miss? Im calling the ear shot a "miss" from the perspective that the bullet would have had virtually all of it's lethal velocity after striking his ear.

    So under some of the best conditions a police officer will face we have a 50% hit rate. Now we have 50% of the HP's flying around to hit collateral targets.

    Look at the idiot who asked the guy for his licence then when he reaches in the car he takes 4 shots. There is a store and other cars behind him. He hit his target 1 time from 10ft.

    South Carolina trooper shot unarmed man, police say - CNN.com

    I suspect that if we were to look at the accuracy of police I'd be shocked, nationwide if it exceeded 40% [EDIT"] So below you can see I posed that in 11 years of study, NY city cops missed their targets (when not being fired upon) 66% of the time.

    That said think of all the HP's that aren't stopped by a body left to fly until they hit a target.

    So your response might be that HP's once they hit something, like drywall, or wood, or a car door will come to a stop faster, and that is an argument, but out in the open if they hit collateral targets they will do more damage to bystanders.

    Perhaps the best argument is that the choice to shoot should be a last resort and the decision to shoot be taken more judiciously. Police work is dangerous work. I know. I went to school to be a cop and I went on ride alongs for two years. I saw first hand what it's like. Frankly I think the police have an almost impossible job (the reason I decided not to do it) and I'm willing to say that the blame doesn't rest entirely on the officers shoulders. Often they are asked to do to much with too little. The system as a whole is largely to blame. Training is inadequate and the suck it up, militaristic culture isn't what we want when dealing with the public on a day-to-day basis imo...

    Ok, this turned into a much longer rant than I intended....
    Last edited by csbrown28; 04-10-15 at 10:41 AM.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    HPs reduce the possibility of over-penetration, thereby reducing risk to bystanders.
    Like I said to Stonewall, that may be the case, but if I had to guess I'd say that less than 50% of shots fired hit their targets, that means there are a lot of HP's flying around....

    Here is an excerpt that says that NY City Police hit their target 34% of the time....

    New York City police officers fire their weapons far less often than they did a decade ago, a statistic that has dropped along with the crime rate. But when they do fire, even at an armed suspect, there is often no one returning fire at the officers. Officers hit their targets roughly 34 percent of the time.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/ny...anted=all&_r=0

    So I'm not sure that the 66% of HP's that missed make the world a safer place....
    Last edited by csbrown28; 04-10-15 at 10:41 AM.
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I don't disagree. Plus there is a tone more things one would have to look at as well.
    I also wonder if some cops have forms of PTSD.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    I also wonder if some cops have forms of PTSD.


    No. Most cops don't ever draw their weapons, and it is a relatively safe job. #heroes


    If sitting in a squad care getting fat causes PTSD.......
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    No. Most cops don't ever draw their weapons, and it is a relatively safe job. #heroes


    If sitting in a squad care getting fat causes PTSD.......
    A lot of them are divorced.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    No. Most cops don't ever draw their weapons, and it is a relatively safe job. #heroes


    If sitting in a squad care getting fat causes PTSD.......
    US police are around 2000 times more likely to use lethal force against the public than those in other developed countries and are around 500 times more likely to be killed in the line of duty.

    Whats wrong with this picture ?

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    US police are around 2000 times more likely to use lethal force against the public than those in other developed countries and are around 500 times more likely to be killed in the line of duty.

    Whats wrong with this picture ?



    Most deaths by american cops are from traffic accidents, by far.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #639
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    What about all those times where people are trying making a Racial mountain out of a color blind mole hill.

    Oh I agree. But there are plenty of times when it's not, yeah?
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    well no ****. But on the same thought, who disproportionately commits the crimes? you would have to factor all of that in to get an accurate idea to prove anything.


    and **** politifact:

    Study Finds Fact Checkers Biased Against Republicans - US News
    PolitiFact Florida’s 5 Most Biased Rulings - Media Trackers

    LOL - A widely known right-wing opinion writer calling politifact biased.....shocked I tell you....shocked! Maybe Fox and the National review getting called out on their lies prompts his wrath?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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