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Thread: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

  1. #1021
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    If you can refute what I present, do so, otherwise save it.
    The point was that what you said was irrelevant and not worth refuting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    So far, in accordance with the evidence he clearly didn't commit a murder and what he may or may not have believed at the moment does make a difference.
    You keep using that word--"clearly."
    I do not think it means what you think it means.

    If it were obvious that Slager did not commit murder, then he would not have been charged. If he had been charged anyway, the relevant Policeman Benevolent Associations would be helping Slager. But Slager was charged with murder and the PBAs are not helping him.

    On the other side of the fence we have, the local law enforcement, the relevant PBAs, much of the media, and, apparently, most of the posters here.
    Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if contrary to your assertion, that most people who have viewed the video decided that it "clearly" was murder.

    Given all of these things, your use of the word "clearly" seems to be clearly questionable.


    I am quite willing to concede that you are unable to see how Slager's actions could constitute murder.
    There's plenty of evidence to indicate that you are having trouble understanding how a reasonable person could see what Slager did as murder.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 04-15-15 at 08:02 AM.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong. The SCOTUS clearly says otherwise.
    Fleeing felon rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Wrong. He wasn't a threat when he was running away, you can see that the officer knew that when he planted the taser on him,.



    Wrong.
    It can easily be explained as already stated.

    So far though, all we have is those like you making unsupported assertions that is was a plant when there is nothing that supports that assertion.


    There are good cops, there are bad cops, "Good cops" that make excuses for bad cops, are not good cops. keep that in mind.

    There is NO explaination for tampering of evidence that can be justified by the law here.

    If you disagree, please show me relevant case law.



    Clearly you know not of what you speaking.
    So let's show everybody you don't.

    In reference to the "policy" reply you quoted, what law are you speaking about?

    Tennesee vs Garner:

    "Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."


    You are once again, wrong.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  3. #1023
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    If you had known the cops would shoot you if you ran, would you have ran?
    Never in a million years.. would I.. a white, lower middle class kid, have thought back then.. that the police would EVER.. think of shooting me for skinny dipping in the local pool. Back then, we respected the police. (other than not wanting to get caught) . Police weren't dicks.

    Heck.. when I was a young man. I drove to a party and didn't plan to drink. Well, I had some drinks and decided not to drive but to walk home (3 miles away). Along the way, the local sheriff pulled over and came out to ask me how I was doing. I told him that I had been drinking, and didn't want to drive. He asked me if I wanted a ride home. I said yes.. and he drove me home. Oh.. I got the speech about walking on the side of the road after drinking.. and how people get hit etc. But he asked if he should stop at the bottom of our drive and he let me out.

    If something got broken or was happening in the neighborhood and that officer or any officer asked us what was going on.. we'd tell them.

    Now? I tell my kid you say nothing to the police other than.. I would answer your questions but I need my father present. I don't trust the police.. I have no reason to now. I have seen way to much abuse... and I am a former reserve officer!. So better to say nothing. And I fear.. by son is large, he is interracial.. and I can totally see him arguing with a policeman if he thinks he is right in the eyes of the law.

    And now..thats a recipe to get shot.

  4. #1024
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    The point was that what you said was irrelevant and not worth refuting.

    Just more asininity.
    No Simon, as usual it is you who are spouting foolish and irrelevant nonsense.

    What I said was relevant, as It was an on point reply to what the other person thought.

    that he knows he is wearing a body mic which would supposedly be capturing the sound of when the taser was employed.
    that he knows he is being recorded. (as confirmed by the witness who was recording)
    that he knows the taser cartridge fires out many id tags which indicates where it was deployed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    You keep using that word--"clearly."
    I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Clearly that would be you, as the evidence clearly does not allow for a murder charge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    If it were obvious that Slager did not commit murder, then he would not have been charged. If he had been charged anyway, the relevant Policeman Benevolent Associations would be helping Slager. But Slager was charged with murder and the PBAs are not helping him.

    On the other side of the fence we have, the local law enforcement, the relevant PBAs, much of the media, and, apparently, most of the posters here.
    Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if contrary to your assertion, that most people who have viewed the video decided that it "clearly" was murder.

    Given all of these things, your use of the word "clearly" seems to be clearly questionable.
    Oy vey!
    1. He was not charged.
    They jumped the gun and he was arrested without a full and proper investigation.
    They didn't even interview the witness who took the video until after the Officer's arrest.
    2. Your appeal to authority is nonsense.
    3. They clearly did not give the video a proper review. Had they he would not have been arrested for murder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I am quite willing to concede that you are unable to see how Slager's actions could constitute murder.
    There's plenty of evidence to indicate that you are having trouble understanding how a reasonable person could see what Slager did as murder.
    You are again speaking foolish nonsense, as this is not about me.
    So far you have failed to refute anything that has been presented. Nor could you, which is why you resort to personal nonsense. You have nothing else.

    As I already told you.

    Stop with the asininity Simon.

    This isn't about me.
    If you can refute what I present, do so, otherwise save it.

    So far, in accordance with the evidence he clearly didn't commit a murder and what he may or may not have believed at the moment does make a difference.

    This is an Officer responding to a significant threat to prevent his flight. It is not premeditation or malice aforethought in an attempt kill someone or commit a crime.
    Your participation in the "Slager Will Walk" thread should have clued you into what the standard of review is going to be.
    This isn't murder, not by a long shot.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

  5. #1025
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong. The SCOTUS clearly says otherwise.
    Fleeing felon rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Wrong. He wasn't a threat when he was running away, you can see that the officer knew that when he planted the taser on him,.
    Wrong.
    The Officer was responding to his being a threat when the suspect threw the taser. He is allowed to continue to respond.

    But since most folks do not understand that, the following argument fits just the same.
    If the Officer did not see the suspect throw the taser, the Officer is still responding to what he reasonably believed is a threat.

    Secondly, what is hilariously is that you provided a wiki article when I previous provided the SCOTUS holding regarding the issue. Especially as the wiki articlwe shows you to be wrong as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong.
    It can easily be explained as already stated.

    So far though, all we have is those like you making unsupported assertions that is was a plant when there is nothing that supports that assertion.
    There are good cops, there are bad cops, "Good cops" that make excuses for bad cops, are not good cops. keep that in mind.

    There is NO explaination for tampering of evidence that can be justified by the law here.

    If you disagree, please show me relevant case law.

    Nothing you said refutes what you quoted.
    While there are bad cops, this isn't one of them.
    Nor was there tampering with evidence, that is a complete fabrication on your part.
    Protocol would be to secure the weapons.


    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Tennesee vs Garner:

    "Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."


    You are once again, wrong.

    And once again it is you who are wrong.
    That is exactly what the Officer was reacting to.
    As soon as the suspect took the taser he became a significant threat.


    As already posted.
    Again;
    We conclude that such force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.


    Had you bothered to take the time to read the case you would have read the following dicta in relevance to the holding.

    Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given.”


    The moment he took the taser he was a significant threat, not just to the Officer but people he may have encountered if allowed to flee.
    And if any of the other criteria fits, he was able to shoot him.


    And then there is the standard of review.
    If the Officer believed he still had the taser when he fired, he is legally in the clear.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

  6. #1026
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    2. Your appeal to authority is nonsense.
    Citing opinion of professsionals in the field in regard to whether something is "clearly" so is entirely valid especially when those professionals are saying that it ain't so.
    I may be wrong.

  7. #1027
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Citing opinion of professsionals in the field in regard to whether something is "clearly" so is entirely valid especially when those professionals are saying that it ain't so.
    Still is an appeal to authority. Especially as those authorities are wrong and will not be making the final decision.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

  8. #1028
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Still is an appeal to authority. Especially as those authorities are wrong and will not be making the final decision.
    Your position is that it is entirely clear but "those authorities" got it wrong.

    When the professionals get it wrong, that's pretty much the definition of it not being clear.

    Obviously, your mileage varies.
    I may be wrong.

  9. #1029
    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong.
    The Officer was responding to his being a threat when the suspect threw the taser. He is allowed to continue to respond.
    Once the taser is on the ground, and he is fleeing with his back turned, he no longer meets the criteria of being "dangerous" and a "threat to life", sorry charlie.


    But since most folks do not understand that, the following argument fits just the same.
    If the Officer did not see the suspect throw the taser, the Officer is still responding to what he reasonably believed is a threat.
    He paused, inhaled, exhaled and started shooting, he beaded down on him, he didn't fire even in the "heat of the moment".


    Secondly, what is hilariously is that you provided a wiki article when I previous provided the SCOTUS holding regarding the issue. Especially as the wiki articlwe shows you to be wrong as well.


    See this is why I couldn't be a cop, I'd be rejected for being too smart.




    @6 seconds it is clear the less than lethal taser, is on the ground, prior to that piece of **** pulling his weapon.


    Nothing you said refutes what you quoted.
    While there are bad cops, this isn't one of them.
    Nor was there tampering with evidence, that is a complete fabrication on your part.
    Protocol would be to secure the weapons.

    I'm talking about the "cops" defending this criminal with a badge.


    wait, so, going back and picking up a deployed old style taser, walking back and throwing it on the ground next to the murder victim is "securing the weapon"?

    Are you for ****ing real?


    And once again it is you who are wrong.
    That is exactly what the Officer was reacting to.
    As soon as the suspect took the taser he became a significant threat.

    Wrong, the less than lethal taser was an old style, and deployed, it wasn't a threat, it was nonfunctioning at that point, and was on the ground as the cop drew and shot the murder victim in the back as he ran away.


    As already posted.
    Again;
    We conclude that such force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.


    1. what was the officer threatened with? not the taser as it was deployed and needed to be re-loaded. being that the murderous cop trains on such a weapon, this was clear to him. so no you are wrong.

    2. his crime was running from a broken tail light, that in and of itself is not enough to shoot him in the back.


    Had you bothered to take the time to read the case you would have read the following dicta in relevance to the holding.
    your cup runneth over.


    The law indicates this was a no shoot situation.


    Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given.”

    The moment he took the taser he was a significant threat, not just to the Officer but people he may have encountered if allowed to flee.
    And if any of the other criteria fits, he was able to shoot him.
    Why? What could he do with a deployed taser? please be specific.



    And then there is the standard of review.
    If the Officer believed he still had the taser when he fired, he is legally in the clear.

    wrong, even if he believed that, the taser HE deployed was no longer a threat to anyone.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  10. #1030
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    Re: Video Shows Officer Shooting Unarmed Black Man in South Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Your position is that it is entirely clear but "those authorities" got it wrong.

    When the professionals get it wrong, that's pretty much the definition of it not being clear.

    Obviously, your mileage varies.
    And again you have said nothing relevant.
    Figures.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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