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The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Grant said:
There are facts and there are beliefs with 'faith' somewhere in-between. In facts are also frequently in doubt.
Communism required belief because there never was evidence that it would work, only theory. Yet despite this lack of evidence, which still exists today, there are many who believe that Communism, and other forms of government control, are a good thing. A lack of evidence has never prevented people from having beliefs and we only need look at the abundant conspiracy theories to understand that.
In fact many have had religious experiences which are usually inexplicable, or had some real experience with the spiritual world. Often our senses tell us things that which not understood by our minds, which we believe to be rational. There should always be room for doubt in any theory, be it for or against the existence of God, good or evil, or anything that is beyond scientific reach. Most recently we saw people believing in Barrack Obama, and with nothing to support their beliefs. It happens all the time.
Of course it doesn't. But you are quite a different person after having been raised in a Christian influenced country then you would be if you were raised in North Korea, Kenya, or Ethiopia.
Some are like that with or without religion. People can feel more superior than their neighbor for any number of things, religion among them.
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Faith isn't in between.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

Faith means to accept what you hope to be true as completely true without any evidence that it's actually true. A "leap of faith" is different than an educated guess. It is by definition 100% irrational.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Mithros said:
Faith isn't in between.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

Faith means to accept what you hope to be true as completely true without any evidence that it's actually true. A "leap of faith" is different than an educated guess. It is by definition 100% irrational.
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Aethist rely on faith per that definition.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Fenton said:
Aethist rely on faith per that definition.
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Nonsense. Religious faith is an uneccessary and often intolerant medieval anachronism in the modern age

To quote Richard Dawkins." Man has invented and discarded hundreds of gods over the millenia. I've just gone one god further"
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

flogger said:
Nonsense. Religious faith is an uneccessary and often intolerant medieval anachronism in the modern age

To quote Richard Dawkins." Man has invented and discarded hundreds of gods over the millenia. I've just gone one god further"
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a89bc2b314f7b92bae2f7b7395dc9ed3.jpg
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
a89bc2b314f7b92bae2f7b7395dc9ed3.jpg
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Well you know what Dirty Harry said about opinions .....

The onus has never been on atheists to prove a negative that god doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies with the true believers and we've been an awful long time waiting for it
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
a89bc2b314f7b92bae2f7b7395dc9ed3.jpg
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And one more fake quote in an attempt to support a fallacy

"Those who raise questions about the God hypothesis and the soul hypothesis are by no means all atheist. An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do know to be sure that no such God exist ..."
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Conversations with Carl Sagan pg 70

It seems to me that the good Professor Sagan was agnostic in his views about a deity
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Somerville said:
And one more fake quote in an attempt to support a fallacy



Conversations with Carl Sagan pg 70

It seems to me that the good Professor Sagan was agnostic in his views about a deity
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Yeah, that was the point of the quote ...
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

flogger said:
Well you know what Dirty Harry said about opinions .....

The onus has never been on atheists to prove a negative that god doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies with the true believers and we've been an awful long time waiting for it
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We've given you plenty of evidence. Your interpretation of it because you don't want there to be a God has been the problems of atheists for that awful long time.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Somerville said:
Riiight -- never mind that it was fake.
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The Washington Post
By Joel Achenbach July 10, 2014
Every so often I get an e-mail out of the blue about two sentences in a story published in The Post in 1996. I quoted Carl Sagan: “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”

Astronomer Carl Sagan prepares for television series ‘Cosmos’ in 1981. He co-wrote the PBS series with his wife, Ann Duryan.
People who contact me want to know where the quote came from. Answer: He said it to me in an interview. (I might even have it on tape somewhere in the bottom of a file box). He said identical, or similar things, many times. You can find such material in his voluminous papers now archived at the Library of Congress. For example:

To Robert Pope, of Windsor, Ontario, Oct. 2, 1996

“I am not an atheist. An atheist is someone who has compelling evidence that there is no Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. I am not that wise...

Sorry Bro, real quote... Repeatedly. Not an atheist. Agnostic. And even though he thought at the time the evidence was very sparse for a God, science has come a long way since Sagan with clearly defined evidence. So much so, Sagan as an agnostic would be in wonder.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
The Washington Post
By Joel Achenbach July 10, 2014
Every so often I get an e-mail out of the blue about two sentences in a story published in The Post in 1996. I quoted Carl Sagan: “An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no God.”

Astronomer Carl Sagan prepares for television series ‘Cosmos’ in 1981. He co-wrote the PBS series with his wife, Ann Duryan.
People who contact me want to know where the quote came from. Answer: He said it to me in an interview. (I might even have it on tape somewhere in the bottom of a file box). He said identical, or similar things, many times. You can find such material in his voluminous papers now archived at the Library of Congress. For example:

To Robert Pope, of Windsor, Ontario, Oct. 2, 1996

“I am not an atheist. An atheist is someone who has compelling evidence that there is no Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. I am not that wise...

Sorry Bro, real quote... Repeatedly. Not an atheist. Agnostic. And even though he thought at the time the evidence was very sparse for a God, science has come a long way since Sagan with clearly defined evidence. So much so, Sagan as an agnostic would be in wonder.
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You are so bad, dude. First you fail to acknowledge that I said Sagan was an agnostic (post #431), then you quote mine an article from the Washington Post without providing a link AND you still claim your original jpg image was authentic

your quote mine with all the words Sagan said, not just what you posted
“I am not an atheist. An atheist is someone who has compelling evidence that there is no Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. I am not that wise, but neither do I consider there to be anything approaching adequate evidence for such a god. Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?”
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a letter to Stephen Jay Gould, quoted in the Post article
“Do you understand how – assuming either of us ever did say ‘The universe can be explained without postulating God’ – this could be understood as dogmatic? I often talk about the ‘God hypothesis’ as something I’d be fully willing to accept if there were compelling evidence; unfortunately, there is nothing approaching compelling evidence. That attitude, it seems to me, is undogmatic.”
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then a quote from a family friend
“In his adult life he was very close to being an atheist. I personally had several conversations with him about religion, belief, god, and yes I agree he was darn close. It’s really semantics at this level of distinction. He was certainly not a theist. And I suppose I can relate because I personally don’t call myself an atheist, although if you probed what I believe, it would be indistinguishable from many who do use that term.”
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OH, you want a link









Carl Sagan denied being an atheist. So what did he believe? [Part 1] - The Washington Post
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Grant said:
Democracies also have governments and of course there are several types throughout the world.. Your claim was you get your rights from government and their is no evidence of that at all. In fact governments can remove your rights just as easily as giving them out..
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Locke Second Treatise of Government about the Social Contract
Hobbes Leviathan about the State of Nature
Montesquieu The Spirit of the Law about the State of Nature

Other good reads are Kant, Hume, Rousseau

In the State of Nature there are no rights. God existed prior to societies when the State of Nature was in effect. There were no rights... There is only what you can do to others and what you can keep them from doing to you.

Rights are a human construct that are designed to help SOCIETY function. Society occurs when people start grouping. When a government is formed in outlines what it will do to protect the people and the people then agree to abide by the laws of the government. This is the Social Contract that gives Rights to the people because the people have given the government that power.

There is probably zero proof for you at this moment in your life but that doesn't mean he won't make himself felt at some later point in your life.
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There is proof or there isn't. There is no proof for "you" as in an individual. The moon exists and can be verified to all. Love can even be proven by words and actions.

God? Nothing. No proof. None. Zilch.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Grant said:
You can only make the claim that for you there has been zero proof.
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Again.... there is either evidence of there is not. "Faith" and "belief" are not proof. "Feelings", "desires", "hopes" and "security" do not consitute proof or evidence.

Millions outside of your circle has had other proof.
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Example?

There is zero proof which satisfies you but there is ample proof
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...such as?

from others who have had different experiences in their lives. You may just have to accept that for now.
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I experience the suns rays that burn my skin. I see the color spectrum in the air, the plants and the animals. I feel the wind. Those are proofs that something exists...

I accept that many billions of people have a belief in something that has ZERO proof that it exists. Seems delusional. Next to that irrational thinking taking the next step and asking why people believe with no proof in something that could EASILY offer proof just compounds the issue or delusional thinking...

It's odd that the anti-Christian skeptics, atheists and agnostics, were often among those who firmly believed that "If you like your plan you can keep your plan", while those of a religious persuasion tended to be more skeptical. It seems humans will believe a great deal on faith alone, but Obamacare rapidly proved to be a lie while Christianity, now under threat around the world, has been around for over 2,000 years and people are still finding truth in His words.
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That is one of the biggest Straw Man / Red Herring combos that I have ever seen. Not even close to a logical analogy. Tossing that aside I assume that you have some proof that it is that it is anti-Christians (however you identify that goup :roll:) that had faith in Obamacare but Christians did not?
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

cpwill said:
:shrug: you tried to discredit the authenticity of the testimony. You failed.
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Your intellectual dishonesty is clear and noted... When it is at the level that you have committed it that is also a signal of a defeated spirit.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
Again government principles are made by men. So what makes there opinion on justice or good or morally evil any better or worse then another person or group? In a relative universe it doesn't. It's just relative opinions on the matter. If however there is something above us like a moral law we all share that tells us if something is absolutely wrong to do in all places at all times then there must be something that transcends us , a moral law giver, what we call God
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Not at all... For the most part people don't want to hack others to death because it is gross, ends a person's life, destroys families, etc. That is hwo I feel and I would argue the VAST MAJORITY feel the same way and that is why mass murdering is non-existent. Just because many people feel the same way does not indicate a moral law giver... that is ridiculous..

Heck, so many people love chocolate that there must be something that transcends us all like a Taste Giver, right? :roll:

Talk about grasping at anything...
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
Depends on the religion and what it teaches. Islams founder Muhammad is more like ISIS, where Jesus teaches to Love, Go the extra mile for others, turn the other cheek etc...
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...and that lead to the Hundreds Years Wars, the Crusades, The Inquisition, Forced Conversion of tens of millions, the Spanish Armada, acceptance of slavery, the Lord's Resistance Army, all those fun years of the Balkan Wars, abortion bombing, the IRA, etc. etc. ETC. While I admit Islam has some massive ****ing problems... discounting the problems of Christianity is naive.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Grant said:
Do you really need a list of atheists who have committed mass killings throughout history? Including recent history? You can start with the Communists with over 100 millions deaths, plus the ruination of many more lives.
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Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of Atheism. They killed in order to maintain and solidate power. It was about politics, not Atheism. They weren't the Pope condoning a Holy War. They were just assholes.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
My post a few above this examines in more detail the role of communist regimes and the like are necessarily linked to the atheist worldview and belief, or lack thereof
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I don't agree with those figures for a second... almost all conflicts until recently have been because one religion has been against another. Whether it is the Hindu's and the Muslims fighting, The Shi'ites and the Sunnies, the Protastants and Catholics, forced conversion or the pagans and heathens, the Muslims and Christians... it is about religion. France, England, Persia, the Ottomans, The Mongol Hordes, The Holy Roman Empire, Spain, China, Japan... it is about religion or faith.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Bodhisattva said:
Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of Atheism. They killed in order to maintain and solidate power. It was about politics, not Atheism. They weren't the Pope condoning a Holy War. They were just assholes.
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Hey, thought I'd jump in here, as an actual communist. Stalin killed due to paranoia and fear, and was power hungry, although this is actually debatable. Mao killed by containing counter-revolutionaries, criminals, traitors.. (as did stalin, also, although he overstepped.) Wait, the famine under Mao is now linked to atheism and not Mao's bad decisions/the conditions at the time? 100 million deaths? Where is he getting this number?
 
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Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Dovkan said:
Hey, thought I'd jump in here, as an actual communist. Stalin killed due to paranoia and fear, and was power hungry. Mao killed by containing counter-revolutionaries, criminals, traitors.. although he overstepped. Wait, the famine under Mao is now linked to atheism and not Mao's bad decisions/the conditions at the time? 100 million deaths? Where is he getting this number?
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From nowhere but an attempt to make an argument...
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Bodhisattva said:
From nowhere but an attempt to make an argument...
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I can see him getting this from inflated numbers, but trying to link it to atheism? :roll:
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Dovkan said:
I can see him getting this from inflated numbers, but trying to link it to atheism? :roll:
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... is retarded. He is deflecting in an attempt to make religion (Chrisianity) sound better and more important to justify his faith in God (religion).
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

Bodhisattva said:
... is retarded. He is deflecting in an attempt to make religion (Chrisianity) sound better and more important to justify his faith in God (religion).
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I know.
 
Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

JFish123 said:
We've given you plenty of evidence.
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Where ? Wishful thinking does not constitute evidence

Your interpretation of it because you don't want there to be a God has been the problems of atheists for that awful long time.
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There can be no interpretation of it because you have yet to present any
 
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Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

PoS said:
Without the resurrection then Christianity really doesnt have a leg to stand on. But then again Jesus and James were common names back then so it could be anyone even if the tomb is verified. The best way to prove Christianity is to find Lazarus.
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Or the Wandering Jew. If the bible is true then he must be around. I'm surprised that he isn't on Facebook.
 
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