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Thread: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What is credible and what is not can only be determined by the believer
    No it can be determined by reason and logic, belief is not required

    Was Communism really credible? Many people thought so and some think so today.
    Communism was a flawed political hypothesis theres a great difference between that and religious superstition

    "The first effect of not believing in God is to believe in anything", and that appears to be true today.
    Not so. You believe in what is credible and can be proven within reasonable doubt. Religion falls short on both counts

    If man is going to believe in something isn't it more worthwhile to believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ,
    Believing in mythological figures who's alleged musings were recorded by men centuries after his death is not something I would particularly choose to peg my life on. Just because I'm not religious does not automatically mean I'm not a good person and don't live by sound values.

    We can see that those who are not religious tended to follow political charlatans, those who would inevitably betray their followers and forget their promises. Whether we are practicing Christians or not (and I am not) we should still appreciate living under the Christian influence rather than some of the alternatives.
    This is where I take issue with religious people. They believe they are somehow morally superior because of their medieval supernatural belief system. I have big problems with such misguided pontificating self righteousness
    Last edited by flogger; 04-17-15 at 04:41 AM.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow! Stunning....If this is reviewed, and verified, what, and how do you see this effecting Christianity? Especially considering the open attack it is under today?
    Interesting stuff but I don't see that it could or should make any difference.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    No it can be determined by reason and logic, belief is not required
    There are facts and there are beliefs with 'faith' somewhere in-between. In facts are also frequently in doubt.
    Communism was a flawed political hypothesis theres a great difference between that and religious superstition
    Communism required belief because there never was evidence that it would work, only theory. Yet despite this lack of evidence, which still exists today, there are many who believe that Communism, and other forms of government control, are a good thing. A lack of evidence has never prevented people from having beliefs and we only need look at the abundant conspiracy theories to understand that.
    Not so. You believe in what is credible and can be proven within reasonable doubt. Religion falls short on both counts
    In fact many have had religious experiences which are usually inexplicable, or had some real experience with the spiritual world. Often our senses tell us things that which not understood by our minds, which we believe to be rational. There should always be room for doubt in any theory, be it for or against the existence of God, good or evil, or anything that is beyond scientific reach. Most recently we saw people believing in Barrack Obama, and with nothing to support their beliefs. It happens all the time.
    Believing in mythological figures who's alleged musings were recorded by men centuries after his death is not something I would particularly choose to peg my life on. Just because I'm not religious does not automatically mean I'm not a good person and don't live by sound values.
    Of course it doesn't. But you are quite a different person after having been raised in a Christian influenced country then you would be if you were raised in North Korea, Kenya, or Ethiopia.
    This is where I take issue with religious people. They believe they are somehow morally superior because of their medieval supernatural belief system. I have big problems with such misguided pontificating self righteousness
    Some are like that with or without religion. People can feel more superior than their neighbor for any number of things, religion among them.

  4. #424
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are facts and there are beliefs with 'faith' somewhere in-between. In facts are also frequently in doubt.
    No there are facts and there is faith there is nothing in between. Facts can be established even when they are wrong. Religious mysticism cannot

    Communism required belief because there never was evidence that it would work, only theory. Yet despite this lack of evidence, which still exists today, there are many who believe that Communism, and other forms of government control, are a good thing. A lack of evidence has never prevented people from having beliefs and we only need look at the abundant conspiracy theories to understand that.
    I've already addressed this

    In fact many have had religious experiences which are usually inexplicable, or had some real experience with the spiritual world.
    Many have vivid imaginations and will see what they want to see. That is a part of the human condition. See 9/11 truthers for details

    Often our senses tell us things that which not understood by our minds, which we believe to be rational. There should always be room for doubt in any theory, be it for or against the existence of God, good or evil, or anything that is beyond scientific reach.
    All religious belief is beyond scientific reach. It has no basis in reason or logic therefore I dismiss it out of hand
    Last edited by flogger; 04-17-15 at 01:44 PM.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JFish123 View Post
    Many people often claim Religion breeds war. Even though studies like the one conducted and put into the "Encyclopedia of Wars", a study of the past 10,000 years from 8000bc to today, found that only 7% of wars and conflicts are religiously motivated. 3% labeled Christian. So the fact that 93% of wars have no religious affiliation escapes people. Now granted if your religion says to kill people like in Islam that's one thing, and a reason why to separate and look at religions and why there not the same. As the Christian religion, with Jesus is absolutely non violent, so those who use violence are not following Jesus.
    But what about Atheist atrocities?

    It is estimated that in the past 100 years, governments under the banner of atheistic communism have caused the death of somewhere between 40,472,000 to 259,432,000 human lives. Dr. R. J. Rummel, professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii, is the scholar who first coined the term democide (death by government). Dr. R. J. Rummel's mid estimate regarding the loss of life due to communism is that communism caused the death of approximately 110,286,000 people between 1917 and 1987.
    Richard Dawkins has attempted to engage in historical revisionism concerning atheist atrocities and Dawkins was shown to be in gross error.
    Karl Marx said "Religion is the opium of the people". Marx also stated: "Communism begins from the outset with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction."
    Vladimir Lenin similarly wrote regarding atheism and communism: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion..."
    Although Communism is one of the most well-known cases of atheism's ties to mass murder, the French Revolution and subsequent Reign of Terror, inspired by the works of Diderot, Voltaire, Sade, and Rousseau, managed to commit similar persecutions and exterminations of religious people and promote secularism and militant atheism. Official numbers indicate that 300,000 Frenchmen died during Robespierre's Reign of Terror, 297,000 of which were of middle-class or low-class. Of the amount murdered via the guillotine, only 8% had been of the aristocratic class, with over 30% being from the peasant class.
    So here's a start of all the people killed by atheistic regimes. And There are a plethora of places where you can verify these numbers, if you are so-minded.
    Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,00 people murdered
    Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
    Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
    Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
    Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
    Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
    Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
    Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
    Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
    So to say atheism breeds good things or will be like Star Trek in the future under atheism fails to learn from history. To say atheism doesn't breed war....
    It's not religion per say, it's xenophobia. Islam is xenophobic. Christianity is xenophobic. Communism is xenophobic. Atheism isn't.

    How do you know they're xenophobic? If someone in theses belief system has a disagreement, its' a problem. They have a heritical belief and must be dealt with, lest that belief spread to others. In other words, the dangerous belief systems are the ones that can't accept differences. They're the ones that focus on purity of belief and heresies.

    Ever hear of a heretical atheist?

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are facts and there are beliefs with 'faith' somewhere in-between. In facts are also frequently in doubt.
    Communism required belief because there never was evidence that it would work, only theory. Yet despite this lack of evidence, which still exists today, there are many who believe that Communism, and other forms of government control, are a good thing. A lack of evidence has never prevented people from having beliefs and we only need look at the abundant conspiracy theories to understand that.
    In fact many have had religious experiences which are usually inexplicable, or had some real experience with the spiritual world. Often our senses tell us things that which not understood by our minds, which we believe to be rational. There should always be room for doubt in any theory, be it for or against the existence of God, good or evil, or anything that is beyond scientific reach. Most recently we saw people believing in Barrack Obama, and with nothing to support their beliefs. It happens all the time.
    Of course it doesn't. But you are quite a different person after having been raised in a Christian influenced country then you would be if you were raised in North Korea, Kenya, or Ethiopia.
    Some are like that with or without religion. People can feel more superior than their neighbor for any number of things, religion among them.
    Faith isn't in between.

    "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

    Faith means to accept what you hope to be true as completely true without any evidence that it's actually true. A "leap of faith" is different than an educated guess. It is by definition 100% irrational.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Faith isn't in between.

    "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

    Faith means to accept what you hope to be true as completely true without any evidence that it's actually true. A "leap of faith" is different than an educated guess. It is by definition 100% irrational.
    Aethist rely on faith per that definition.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Aethist rely on faith per that definition.
    Nonsense. Religious faith is an uneccessary and often intolerant medieval anachronism in the modern age

    To quote Richard Dawkins." Man has invented and discarded hundreds of gods over the millenia. I've just gone one god further"

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Nonsense. Religious faith is an uneccessary and often intolerant medieval anachronism in the modern age

    To quote Richard Dawkins." Man has invented and discarded hundreds of gods over the millenia. I've just gone one god further"

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JFish123 View Post
    Well you know what Dirty Harry said about opinions .....

    The onus has never been on atheists to prove a negative that god doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies with the true believers and we've been an awful long time waiting for it

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