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Thread: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JFish123 View Post
    There's plenty non biblical sources. Here are just a few...
    Thallus (52AD)
    Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus and he is so ancient his writings tried to explain away the darkness occurring at Jesus’ crucifixion:
    “On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.”

    Mara Bar-Serapion (70AD)
    Sometime after 70AD, a Syrian philosopher named Mara Bar-Serapion, writing to encourage his son, compared the life and persecution of Jesus with that of other philosophers who were persecuted for their ideas. The fact Jesus is known to be a real person with this kind of influence is important. Mara Bar-Serapion refers to Jesus as the “Wise King”:
    “What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?…After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men…The wise king…Lived on in the teachings he enacted.”

    Phlegon (80-140AD)
    Phlegon wrote a chronicle of history around 140AD. In this history, Phlegon also mentions the darkness surrounding the crucifixion in an effort to explain it:
    “Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth to the ninth hour.”
    Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen (an early church theologian and scholar, born in Alexandria):
    “Now Phlegon, in the thirteenth or fourteenth book, I think, of his Chronicles, not only ascribed to Jesus a knowledge of future events . . . but also testified that the result corresponded to his predictions."
    “And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place …"
    “Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.”

    Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)
    Early Christians were also described in early, non-Christian history. Pliny the Younger, in a letter to the Roman emperor Trajan, describes the lifestyles of early Christians:
    “They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food—but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”

    Suetonius (69-140AD)
    Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):
    “Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)
    This expulsion took place in 49AD, and in another work, Suetonius wrote about the fire which destroyed Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians for this fire and he punished Christians severely as a result:
    “Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.” (Lives of the Caesars, 26.2)

    And on and on...
    So Thallus didn't understand the science of a solar eclipse. Bar-Sarapions mention of a Jewish Wise King doesn't confirm the mythological Jesus. None of your sources are contemporary with the time Jesus was alleged to have lived. As I pointed out, the silence from Philo and Josephus who would have been his contemporaries says it all.
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    I think there is no question that Jesus the human being existed. there is nothing wrong with admitting that no matter what you think of him being the messiah. I think there is just as much proof that he existed as there is that Alexander the Great or Aristotle existed. in order to believe there was some conspiracy to "create" Jesus you would have to believe something along the lines of a 9/11 conspiracy theory. there are too many impossibilities to consider. If the disciples conspired together why wouldn't all of their historical accounts be exactly the same instead of having sometimes huge differences in their stories about Jesus. it just doesn't make sense from the start.
    There may or may not have been a person known as Jesus, which is a common enough name, living in that location at that time. The magic stories attached to him are still a mishmash of pre-existing, current at the time, and later myths and embroideries. The books named after the apostles weren't actually written by them. Besides which, where are the other eight?
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wow, now that's a new twist, eyewitness accounts differing being offered up as proof!! And what "evidence" outside of the bible is there that he existed. Two historians that would have been his contemporaries, Philo of Alexandria and Josephus failed to mention a guy healing the sick, raising the dead, and feeding throngs with a couple fish and a few loaves of bread. (Of course the "Complete Works of Josephus" have an after thought paragraph that mention him quite in passing, lol. )
    How many people from the first century can we dismiss from existence using these techniques? Why are you holding of Jesus as the one who needs SPECIAL evidence of existence. more than you require to believe Aristotle, for example, existed. nefarious motive perhaps?

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JFish123 View Post
    Too long to write so I'll be short as possible with lout too much theology... New covenant. When the religious people brought a woman caught commiting adultery they wanted to stone her. Jesus answered them and they left, and told her he doesn't condemn her and to Go sin no more. Jesus healed on the sabbath and that made them want to kill him even more. And it's interesting, Funny how people use scripture when convenient to them, then chuck it out for the rest of there lives.
    Excuses excuses. Kill the children who curse you is a biblical instruction. Worse even than chopping off a thief's hand, yet you handwave the first while condemning the second. What was Jesus' attitude to hypocrites?
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    How many people from the first century can we dismiss from existence using these techniques? Why are you holding of Jesus as the one who needs SPECIAL evidence of existence. more than you require to believe Aristotle, for example, existed. nefarious motive perhaps?
    I've never spoke to Aristotle. Aristotle though isn't a figure of worship, doesn't pose any threat due to heinous doctrines. At any rate, my Christian friends insist we must take it on faith.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    So Thallus didn't understand the science of a solar eclipse. Bar-Sarapions mention of a Jewish Wise King doesn't confirm the mythological Jesus. None of your sources are contemporary with the time Jesus was alleged to have lived. As I pointed out, the silence from Philo and Josephus who would have been his contemporaries says it all.
    The earliest biography of Alexander the Great was written 400 years after his death.

    The famous philosopher Socrates has no surviving work and is unknown save through the often contradictory testimony of his students.

    I mean shoot, the Roman Emperor at the time had less known sources about him than Jesus. And the earliest account of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15) was known within years of Jesusí death. The earliest gospel, Mark, was written about 30 years after Jesusí death . And the earliest non-Christian source, Josephus, wrote about Jesus about 70 years after his death.

    Even hardcore atheists like Richard Dawkins admit Jesus was historical. Even "Ask the Atheists" website claims as much as well as almost every other major atheists. To claim not enough evidence for Jesus, gotta cancel Alexander, Socrates, the Roman Emperor at the time of Jesus etc... Off the list as well to even begin to be credible.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    So Thallus didn't understand the science of a solar eclipse. Bar-Sarapions mention of a Jewish Wise King doesn't confirm the mythological Jesus. None of your sources are contemporary with the time Jesus was alleged to have lived. As I pointed out, the silence from Philo and Josephus who would have been his contemporaries says it all.
    And of course, we don't have the writings of Thallus anyhow, we only know about them because they are referenced in another work, which has also gone entirely missing. It's a second-hand account at best. Let's be honest. JFish123 is just cutting and pasting from an apologist site and everything he has to say has been soundly rebutted. He has no clue what he's talking about, which isn't at all a surprise.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Excuses excuses. Kill the children who curse you is a biblical instruction. Worse even than chopping off a thief's hand, yet you handwave the first while condemning the second. What was Jesus' attitude to hypocrites?
    Jesus told those people who did believe in those punishments were wrong. So don't know how that's hypocritical if I follow the one who told the people in charge what they believed were wrong. And how many lives has atheist regimes butchered in the last century? By my count over 100 million. Not a good track record for just 100 years...

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And of course, we don't have the writings of Thallus anyhow, we only know about them because they are referenced in another work, which has also gone entirely missing. It's a second-hand account at best. Let's be honest. JFish123 is just cutting and pasting from an apologist site and everything he has to say has been soundly rebutted. He has no clue what he's talking about, which isn't at all a surprise.
    Then to be intellectually honest, you have to believe Alexander the Great,Socrates didn't exist either. My God, if Richard Dawkins and people like Ask the Atheists website among many other atheists agree Jesus existed, your really reaching the bottom of the barrel with conspiracy theories to do all you can not to believe in Jesus. Don't know why, don't care, but something ain't right for such a defense . My guess, you don't want there to be a Jesus so all evidence goes through a bias of can't be , so mustn't be. Gotta be independent like others who looked at the evidence and came to the historical conclusion my man.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by JFish123 View Post
    Jesus told those people who did believe in those punishments were wrong. So don't know how that's hypocritical if I follow the one who told the people in charge what they believed were wrong. And how many lives has atheist regimes butchered in the last century? By my count over 100 million. Not a good track record for just 100 years...
    You can't prove BS with more BS from the same source.
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