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Thread: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has virtually unequivocal evidence[W:577]

  1. #101
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    I believe your dating is wrong for the Gospels and eyewitnesses. Here's a more scholarly view on that:

    A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books

    All dates within the probable lifetimes of the Gospel authors and eyewitnesses.

    Also, the earliest mention of the resurrection was likely less than a decade after the event.

    Earliest Mention of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ « The Righter Report
    Okay. So we'll say it was written at those time points. According to J.D. Crossan, the average age of a Palestinian man in these times was 29 years. So let's assume that these are eyewitness accounts. Also, let's assume Jesus did die in 33 A.D. If the Gospel according to Mark was written in 61 A.D. and the average life expectancy was 29 years, that would make him 4 years old at the time of Jesus' death. AND THAT'S THE EARLIEST DATE. John was written in 86 A.D. (your source, not mine). He would have had to have been almost 50 when he was writing this to even have been at the death and resurrection of Jesus if he was a newborn infant when it happened. Oh, and lest we forget, this is in a largely illiterate area. So sure, it makes sense that a four year old in an illiterate area would write down and have perfect recollection from memory (25+ years later mind you) a supernatural story. Yeah. Right.
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. Period."

    "I never said that, what I said was you can keep your plan until the insurance companies change it"

    Delusional defined...your leader

    That has literally nothing to do with what I said, but hey, continue with the hackery.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow! Stunning....If this is reviewed, and verified, what, and how do you see this effecting Christianity? Especially considering the open attack it is under today?
    Many Christians will refuse to believe Jesus was married. Many consider it blasphemy.

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Nor does He have a wife and son
    Perhaps he did and it was kept from us when the gospel was cherry picked as some scholars say. It would make sense to have Jesus completely experience the human condition first hand. Afterall there is a void of information from childhood up until the age of 30.

    A life in our footsteps sure beats virgin unmarried priests giving marriage counseling.
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 04-09-15 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Okay. So we'll say it was written at those time points. According to J.D. Crossan, the average age of a Palestinian man in these times was 29 years.

    So let's assume that these are eyewitness accounts. Also, let's assume Jesus did die in 33 A.D. If the Gospel according to Mark was written in 61 A.D. and the average life expectancy was 29 years, that would make him 4 years old at the time of Jesus' death. AND THAT'S THE EARLIEST DATE. John was written in 86 A.D. (your source, not mine). He would have had to have been almost 50 when he was writing this to even have been at the death and resurrection of Jesus if he was a newborn infant when it happened. Oh, and lest we forget, this is in a largely illiterate area. So sure, it makes sense that a four year old in an illiterate area would write down and have perfect recollection from memory (25+ years later mind you) a supernatural story. Yeah. Right.
    I wouldn't consider J.D. Crossan to be believable on a lot of things. He's a classic theological liberal - one of the founders of the theologically liberal "Jesus Seminar," whose members cast colored beads to vote on what they thought was "acceptable." Anything supernatural, like the miracles of Jesus, his resurrection, etc., all went flying out the window - not based on anything objective - but based on their 'a priori' anti-supernatural bias. They love their theories and hypotheses, but from what I've seen there's seldom any historical, archaeological or traditional evidences to back them up. And then they call that "scholarship."

    But back to the issue here -

    Herod the Great lived to be 69, and the Jews, perhaps because of their Biblical diets, lived roughly 70 years. And tradition says that the Apostle John lived to be a very old man. "The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty; yet their span is but toil and trouble; they are soon gone, and we fly away." - Psalm 90:10

    We also have the earliest church fathers who verified the traditional Gospel authors, so I don't see where the skeptics have a leg to stand on with the age argument.
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Many Christians will refuse to believe Jesus was married. Many consider it blasphemy.
    That's because there's zero credible historical evidence of it.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    I wouldn't consider J.D. Crossan to be believable on a lot of things. He's a classic theological liberal - one of the founders of the theologically liberal "Jesus Seminar," whose members cast colored beads to vote on what they thought was "acceptable." Anything supernatural, like the miracles of Jesus, his resurrection, etc., all went flying out the window - not based on anything objective - but based on their 'a priori' anti-supernatural bias. They love their theories and hypotheses, but from what I've seen there's seldom any historical, archaeological or traditional evidences to back them up. And then they call that "scholarship."

    But back to the issue here -

    Herod the Great lived to be 69, and the Jews, perhaps because of their Biblical diets, lived roughly 70 years. And tradition says that the Apostle John lived to be a very old man. "The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty; yet their span is but toil and trouble; they are soon gone, and we fly away." - Psalm 90:10

    We also have the earliest church fathers who verified the traditional Gospel authors, so I don't see where the skeptics have a leg to stand on with the age argument.
    You did nothing to address the post above besides attack a theologian -- one of your believing ilk. How do you know they lived to be seventy, though? You're a priori assuming that Psalms is stating the truth.

    Verified what about them? They existed. Great. That's kind of immaterial. What matters is were they eyewitnesses? Otherwise it's hearsay. I would think there's a pretty strong case for the latter.
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  8. #108
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    You did nothing to address the post above besides attack a theologian -- one of your believing ilk.
    Yes, I did address it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    How do you know they lived to be seventy, though? You're a priori assuming that Psalms is stating the truth.

    Verified what about them? They existed. Great. That's kind of immaterial. What matters is were they eyewitnesses? Otherwise it's hearsay. I would think there's a pretty strong case for the latter.
    Tradition holds that the apostle John lived to be a very old man.

    In addition...

    The opinion of scores of scholars verify the earlier dates for the Gospels, and who wrote them.

    A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books

    One other thing - did you casually dismiss the earliest mention of the resurrection?

    http://righterreport.com/2013/01/17/1064/

    The 1st Corinthians Creed

    “For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.” – Paul, 1 Corinthians 15:3-8

    As Scholar Gary Habermas notes:

    “Even critical scholars usually agree that it has an exceptionally early origin.” Ulrich Wilckens declares that this creed “indubitably goes back to the oldest phase of all in the history of primitive Christianity.” (8) Joachim Jeremias calls it “the earliest tradition of all.” (9) Even the non-Christian scholar Gerd Ludemann says that “I do insist that the discovery of pre-Pauline confessional foundations is one of the great achievements in the New Testament scholarship.”

    The majority of scholars who comment think that Paul probably received this information about three years after his conversion, which probably occurred from one to four years after the crucifixion. At that time, Paul visited Jerusalem to speak with Peter and James, each of whom are included in the list of Jesus’ appearances (1 Cor. 15:5, 7; Gal. 1:18–19).This places it at roughly A.D. 32–38.

    Even the (liberal) Jesus Seminar co-founder John Dominic Crossan, writes:

    “Paul wrote to the Corinthians from Ephesus in the early 50s C.E. But he says in 1 Corinthians 15:3 that “I handed on to you as of first importance which I in turn received.” The most likely source and time for his reception of that tradition would have been Jerusalem in the early 30s when, according to Galatians 1:18, he “went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas [Peter] and stayed with him fifteen days.”


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  9. #109
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Indubitably 30 years later there would be inaccuracies, and that's the point. This has been tested and proven many times throughout history. And not only that, until the Protestant reformation, and better publishing abilities, the corrupt Catholic Church was in control of the "scriptures" and their duplication. Dubious at best.
    There are first person inaccuracies in eyewitness accounts.

    Here's the distinction. Jesus was one man 2000 years ago with a small contingent of believers following him.

    Now, over 2 Billion followers believe he was the son of God and believe the Gospels are true.

    Thats either the most succesful PR campaign in History or he is the Messiah.

    I chose to believe the latter because I know there's more to my faith than just a belief in the unknown.

  10. #110
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    Re: The lost tomb of Jesus? Scientist claims he has 'virtually unequivocal evidence'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    So Peter directly passing down his eyewitness accounts to Mark wouldn't qualify as a eyewitness account ?

    As an example I could give eyewitness accounts of things my Grandfather did 30 years ago to my son.

    Does that make those accounts false ?
    Short answer is no; an account of someone else's eyewitness account is not an eyewitness account.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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