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Thread: Rand Paul announces presidential run

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    actually, I said a fact that does not pertain to the argument is a strawman

    some foolish poster - can't keep them all straight, claimed a fact can't be a straw man.

    that is about the most idiotic thing ever stated on this forum

    1+1=2. that is a fact.

    So let's play it out.

    me ~ neocons fought Rubio in 2009

    some silly reply ~ no - 1+1 = 2

    me ~ that is a straw man

    ~some silly reply ~no, that is a fact, a fact can't be a strawman.


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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    reasoned arguments are not force.

    I guess for the stupid and weak-minded, it might seem like force, but that does not pertain to you.

    Even thought is a force.

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Who did this?
    Not the Neoconservatives. Moreover, even a narrative that the Establishment fought Rubio would be flawed. FromThe Washington Post:

    In Florida, for instance, Mitt Romney this week joined past -- and possibly future -- presidential rivals Mike Huckabee and Rudolph W. Giuliani aboard the increasingly crowded bandwagon of Senate candidate and "tea party" favorite Marco Rubio. That's looking like a safe bet: The former Florida House speaker has amassed a lead so formidable in the GOP primary that Gov. Charlie Crist, the early favorite, might ditch his party and run as an independent in November.

    Prominent Republicans making more endorsements in primary races

    These endorsements were in addition to those by Vice President Cheney and Governor Jeb Bush.

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    "cooku, cooku?

    How old are you?

    can a fact be a strawman?

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    How do you feel about what the GOP swift-boaters and their dark NeoCon money have done to Rand Paul this week ?
    Rick Reed refuses to disclose his donors. But they also attacked Ted Cruz. Both candidates are tea party candidates. The tea party was formed out of disgust of GWB feckless spending. His bailouts of the auto companies and banks placing the burden on the taxpayers while their CEO's still collected healthy paychecks and bonuses. The Republican establishment does not like fiscal conservatives who stand for smaller government.

    edit- some GOP candidates all claim they want a balanced budget, but few want to reform government by shrinking its size. Both Bush and Kasich talk the talk about balanced budgets but both Bush and Kasich rely heavily on the Federal government to achieve those goals in their own states. They are gun ho to accept any carrot on the stick that the federal government dangles before them if it means more money for their state. Both Bush and Kasich support Common Core which is also tied to federal dollars and corporate welfare. Both Bush and Kasich support the expansion of Medicaid.
    Last edited by vesper; 04-09-15 at 03:55 PM.

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Rick Reed refuses to disclose his donors. But they also attacked Ted Cruz. Both candidates are tea party candidates. The tea party was formed out of disgust of GWB feckless spending. His bailouts of the auto companies and banks placing the burden on the taxpayers while their CEO's still collected healthy paychecks and bonuses. The Republican establishment does not like fiscal conservatives who stand for smaller government.

    edit- some GOP candidates all claim they want a balanced budget, but few want to reform government by shrinking its size. Both Bush and Kasich talk the talk about balanced budgets but both Bush and Kasich rely heavily on the Federal government to achieve those goals in their own states. They are gun ho to accept any carrot on the stick that the federal government dangles before them if it means more money for their state. Both Bush and Kasich support Common Core which is also tied to federal dollars and corporate welfare. Both Bush and Kasich support the expansion of Medicaid.
    I suppose all of this is why I could vote for Kasich--right now at 50/50 against HRC.
    I didn't see you mention his fights against Public Unions, which is a problem for me, but HRC isn't much better.
    As well as his support for voter laws, doing my best not to call them suppression, which is my biggest problem with him.

    Not taking Medicaid would have been foolish IMHO--as you saw with Snyder, as well as Martinez and SANDOVAL out west.
    They all got out in front of the issue early and all coasted to easy victories in 2014, due in part to that.

    His state depends on the auto industry--it's just the way our Nation's economy is--CEOs will always benefit.
    If non-Union companies get the bids around IL, the contracts to do the work don't change.
    But the worker doesn't get prevailing wages/benefits--so the CEO makes even more.

    I'll be interested to see your further comments on Kasich.
    As a bettor, I'm pissed to see his odds drop from 75/1 to 50/1--which I'll hit in about eleven days in Vegas.
    Remember when Kasich was one of four governors who was invited to speak at the Adelson summit in Vegas last year?
    And then there's former RNC Chief Michael Steele, who I just saw recently say not to underestimate Kasich .
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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I suppose all of this is why I could vote for Kasich--right now at 50/50 against HRC.
    I didn't see you mention his fights against Public Unions, which is a problem for me, but HRC isn't much better.
    As well as his support for voter laws, doing my best not to call them suppression, which is my biggest problem with him.

    Not taking Medicaid would have been foolish IMHO--as you saw with Snyder, as well as Martinez and SANDOVAL out west.
    They all got out in front of the issue early and all coasted to easy victories in 2014, due in part to that.

    His state depends on the auto industry--it's just the way our Nation's economy is--CEOs will always benefit.
    If non-Union companies get the bids around IL, the contracts to do the work don't change.
    But the worker doesn't get prevailing wages/benefits--so the CEO makes even more.

    I'll be interested to see your further comments on Kasich.
    As a bettor, I'm pissed to see his odds drop from 75/1 to 50/1--which I'll hit in about eleven days in Vegas.
    Remember when Kasich was one of four governors who was invited to speak at the Adelson summit in Vegas last year?
    And then there's former RNC Chief Michael Steele, who I just saw recently say not to underestimate Kasich .
    Look, Kasich has done some really good things for Ohio. He is a "good" man. But I personally believe that states have become so dependent on the federal government for money just to balance their budgets really needs to be addressed.

    I remember when Reagan wanted so much to close down the department of education and that never happened mostly in part he had to work with a Democrat majority in Congress. States should be in charge of their education. But I am one of those folks who thinks the federal government has taken on much more authority that it was ever intended to possess. And at the same time I see states becoming irresponsible in their own spending needing big blocks of money from the feds to accomplish a balanced budget.

    Reform is needed. I would like to see the IRS so insignificant that everyone could file their taxes on a post card and the ridiculous tax code in the land abolished. Everyone pay their fair share. No loopholes, no exceptions. If you travel on the Interstate highways and count on the Defense to protect you, you need to be paying something.

    That's just a couple of examples and a good start.

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Look, Kasich has done some really good things for Ohio. He is a "good" man.
    But I personally believe that states have become so dependent on the federal government for money just to balance their budgets really needs to be addressed.
    First of all, it was Gov. Perry who used the stimulus money to balance his TEXAS budget in 2009.
    Together with the oil boom, seems things have worked out well there.

    I'm sure you remember all the GOP Governors, Senators and Representatives ribbon-cutting 'necessary' projects with stimulus money.

    I remember when Reagan wanted so much to close down the department of education and that never happened mostly in part he had to work with a Democrat majority in Congress. States should be in charge of their education. But I am one of those folks who thinks the federal government has taken on much more authority that it was ever intended to possess. And at the same time I see states becoming irresponsible in their own spending needing big blocks of money from the feds to accomplish a balanced budget.
    What bothers me in all of these discussions is how it's the Democratic Congress's fault during Reagan's time but Obama's fault with this GOP Congress.
    I would like to see the IRS so insignificant that everyone could file their taxes on a post card and the ridiculous tax code in the land abolished. Everyone pay their fair share. No loopholes, no exceptions. If you travel on the Interstate highways and count on the Defense to protect you, you need to be paying something.
    It was just-retired GOP Ways and Means Chair Dave Camp who put out his tax rewrite last year--it was never debated on the House floor.
    Many of your concerns are addressed in this rewrite.

    But I will always hearken back to Sen. Coburn's Back-in-Black grand bargain--we would have been balanced by the 2016 budget.
    He called for an 8-for-one swap of cuts to new revenue--only Huntsman raised his hand on that one in 2012.
    Both the liberals and TEAs killed his plan.

    I'd like to see a real 'replace' to go along with the 'repeal' mantra of the House.
    They keep saying they have a plan--let's see it AND debate it on the House floor.

    Finally, what we have in the House is two separate GOP parties at full war with each other.
    The AANs/Elites/Establishment are viciously attacking fellow TEA members/Freedom Caucus back home with ads, as well as potential 2016 primary foes.
    And you've already seen the swift boat ads slamming Rand Paul.

    If not for Pelosi providing Boehner votes by not whipping NO,
    the government would have shut down last December on the Cromnibus and at the end of February on the DHS bill.

    Politically, DEMs should stand back and let the GOP destroy itself from within.
    But for the good of the Nation, they won't let that happen .
    Chemists Have Solutions .

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Look, Kasich has done some really good things for Ohio. He is a "good" man. But I personally believe that states have become so dependent on the federal government for money just to balance their budgets really needs to be addressed.

    I remember when Reagan wanted so much to close down the department of education and that never happened mostly in part he had to work with a Democrat majority in Congress. States should be in charge of their education. But I am one of those folks who thinks the federal government has taken on much more authority that it was ever intended to possess. And at the same time I see states becoming irresponsible in their own spending needing big blocks of money from the feds to accomplish a balanced budget.

    Reform is needed. I would like to see the IRS so insignificant that everyone could file their taxes on a post card and the ridiculous tax code in the land abolished. Everyone pay their fair share. No loopholes, no exceptions. If you travel on the Interstate highways and count on the Defense to protect you, you need to be paying something.

    That's just a couple of examples and a good start.


    Heya Vee. Kasich has been doing what Paul mentioned. Kasich has been going around the country speaking and working on getting a Balanced budget amendment added to the Constitution.

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    Re: Rand Paul announces presidential run

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    First of all, it was Gov. Perry who used the stimulus money to balance his TEXAS budget in 2009.
    Together with the oil boom, seems things have worked out well there.

    I'm sure you remember all the GOP Governors, Senators and Representatives ribbon-cutting 'necessary' projects with stimulus money.


    What bothers me in all of these discussions is how it's the Democratic Congress's fault during Reagan's time but Obama's fault with this GOP Congress.

    It was just-retired GOP Ways and Means Chair Dave Camp who put out his tax rewrite last year--it was never debated on the House floor.
    Many of your concerns are addressed in this rewrite.

    But I will always hearken back to Sen. Coburn's Back-in-Black grand bargain--we would have been balanced by the 2016 budget.
    He called for an 8-for-one swap of cuts to new revenue--only Huntsman raised his hand on that one in 2012.
    Both the liberals and TEAs killed his plan.

    I'd like to see a real 'replace' to go along with the 'repeal' mantra of the House.
    They keep saying they have a plan--let's see it AND debate it on the House floor.

    Finally, what we have in the House is two separate GOP parties at full war with each other.
    The AANs/Elites/Establishment are viciously attacking fellow TEA members/Freedom Caucus back home with ads, as well as potential 2016 primary foes.
    And you've already seen the swift boat ads slamming Rand Paul.

    If not for Pelosi providing Boehner votes by not whipping NO,
    the government would have shut down last December on the Cromnibus and at the end of February on the DHS bill.

    Politically, DEMs should stand back and let the GOP destroy itself from within.
    But for the good of the Nation, they won't let that happen .


    Now that was funny.

    What we need is personal responsibility re-instated personally and for states. We need to reign in a federal government that places so many mandates on states that they are forced to take the carrot on the stick funds just to balance their budgets.

    We need to balance the budget and stop spending money we do not have.

    We need to wean state dependency on the federal government by issuing grant blocks of money to each state to set up their own welfare system, their own school systems, their own health insurance.

    We need to stop all corporate welfare.

    By giving states blocks of money to re-establish what the Constitution finds them responsible for, you take away the special interests at the federal level and totally shrink the size of an overbloated government.

    You allow all fifty states to become test kitchens without federal government interference to produce policies that work or fail. And in failure change course. It's much easier for a state to change course in failure than it is when the federal government issues failed policies. And with 50 different test kitchens those who find success, others will mimic.


    By shrinking the size of government, you shrink the amount of the budget and with every citizen paying their fair share in taxes, the debt decreases and no longer remains a national security threat and no longer do the future generations have to fear being turned into serfs just to pay the interest.

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