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Thread: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

  1. #81
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Not according to the framework (JCPOA) agreement. Iran can only operate IR-1 centrifuges. These are their original models made from the blueprints of a dated Urenco European model stolen by A.Q Khan and sold to the Iranians. Their more advanced centrifuges will be mothballed and secured by the IAEA.

    6,104 IR-1 centrifuge units will be barely enough to feed the generating reactor at Natanz and provide a bit extra LEU for research, medicine, industry, etc.
    This all assumes they even adhere to the agreement, of course. I think it's very foolish to count on that.

    Get your crying towel ready for when we hear that the Iranians have locked out inspectors. That starts a clock that gives us roughly a year to decide what to do before the Iranians have a weapon. And that assumes that we really know what's going on in Iran.

    I think it's amusing the way people quote from that "framework" as if it will have any bearing at all on what the Iranians do. Fools.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post


    Except for the stock market, the economy, the unemployment rate, the national deficit, our respect around the world, and many other things that I'm sure I'll think of after I write this post? Totally!
    Why don't you give Obama credit for us having so few tornadoes in March this year while you're at it?

    The economy has improved somewhat despite everything that Obama did to hurt it, from more taxes to more regulations to killing the coal industry to badmouthing and threatening business leaders to giving more power to extortionist unions. He did manage to slow down recovery quite a bit, though.

    The US is less respected around the world than I can ever remember. Obama is popular, though. I think the facts that the US is so disrespected and Obama is popular are connected.

    Warmongering IS weakness. It reduces morality and problem solving to might-makes-right.
    It's really the only way to solve some problems. It worked really well with Germany and Japan.

    You might not be interested in war, but war may be interested in you. In that case the choices are to fight or to surrender.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  3. #83
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    like when Obama does it. noted.
    Nope. I don't like the things that Obama has engaged in wrt to drones in Afghanistan.

    That does not mean that what he is doing with respect to Iran is not correct. He is doing the right thing by engaging in these negotiations, and if you are indeed a pacifist then you should be happy this is happening because if this did not happen the very type of bombing that you don't like will very likely occur.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    OK.

    Is this agreement going to significantly reduce the chance that they'll build a bomb anyway? Or is this just unneeded window dressing that the Iranians wanted to give away anyway?

    The goal here isn't to just get an agreement, the goal needs to be to prevent Iran from being able to build a bomb, period, or at least for a very, very long time.

    The last thing that the Middle East needs, as unstable as it is right now and will be for the foreseeable future, is a nuclear arms race, with religious leaders with extremists ideologies with their fingers on the buttons.

    So is this agreement going to achieve those goals? At best the answer comes back as 'we'll see', and nothing more solid than that. So really, even with the agreement in place and faithfully executed by all parties, the Middle Eat, and the rest of the world, isn't nearly out of the woods yet.

    In fact, things have gotten worse, from the stand point that a known financial and material supporter of Islamic Militant Fundamentalist has stepped into the vacuum in the region left by Obama's shrinking away and withdrawing from that very region.
    No this agreement is the part of a solution that provides the best chance that Iran does not build a bomb. Nothing, not even bombing Iran can absolutely guarantee that Iran will not build a bomb at this point. Again, this is because you cannot bomb knowledge, and Iran knows how to do it. The only way forward is to create the conditions such that they will not want to do it and that minimizes the chances that they are doing it. Inspections and limiting their enrichment capability minimizes the chances that they are doing it in order to give time so that the world can be convinced that their intention is not to build a weapon. While this confidence building is taking place, Iran needs to integrated into the international community. There are nations that have the capability to build nuclear weapons but who don't feel the need to do so. In the case of Germany and Japan, they were our bitter enemies at one point. But now, these nations feel no need to build a bomb, and no one suspects them of secretly doing so because they have been successfully integrated into the international system. That is what needs to happen with Iran. On the other hand, this view that violent coercion is the way forward will simply create the conditions such that it is more likely that Iran feels the need to have a nuclear weapon at some point.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Warmongering IS weakness. It reduces morality and problem solving to might-makes-right.
    That is right. It is simply a mechanism that insecure people have devised to mask their insecurity.

  6. #86
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Why don't you give Obama credit for us having so few tornadoes in March this year while you're at it?

    The economy has improved somewhat despite everything that Obama did to hurt it, from more taxes to more regulations to killing the coal industry to badmouthing and threatening business leaders to giving more power to extortionist unions. He did manage to slow down recovery quite a bit, though.

    The US is less respected around the world than I can ever remember. Obama is popular, though. I think the facts that the US is so disrespected and Obama is popular are connected.
    Which talking heads on Fox "News" preached to you these "facts"?

    It's really the only way to solve some problems. It worked really well with Germany and Japan.

    You might not be interested in war, but war may be interested in you. In that case the choices are to fight or to surrender.
    Name one war that the US got into since WWII that was truly worth getting into. Just one. (Hint: Gulf War I isn't one of them.)

    I'll be waiting.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    It's not a strawman, nor is it ignorant. it's an oppressive intolerant regime, you are in favor of benefiting them despite thier oppressive theocratic fascism. It's a country that's been hostile, built ied's that killed americans, and has pan-islamic caliphate aspirations.

    Just like the arab spring, we are helping bad guys get what they want.

    Oh yup. Me, an atheist, left wing, democratic socialist, is in favor of a far right wing, non-secular, theocratic, fascism...
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    The US is less respected around the world than I can ever remember. Obama is popular, though. I think the facts that the US is so disrespected and Obama is popular are connected.

    Some folks do have trouble with memory loss, but not everyone displays it so publicly.
    From 2007 to 2013, Pew found that views of the United States improved in 22 countries. Eight nationsí favorable ratings increased by at least 20 percentage points; only four saw a decline. The median countryís views of the U.S. went up by 9 points.
    In all fairness, approval of the U.S. has fallen. Do you think it's all the fault of ONE person? No response needed, it's a rhetorical question.
    Gallup did find that approval of U.S. leadership ó after improving upon Obama taking office ó declined in many regions. From its Obama-era peak, approval has fallen 8 percentage points globally (although itís still above where it stood at the end of the George W. Bush administration).

    Romney, Obama And International Opinion | FiveThirtyEight
    "This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth." "The man is utterly amoral. Morality does not exist for him." - Ted Cruz on li'l donny

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    This all assumes they even adhere to the agreement, of course. I think it's very foolish to count on that.
    Every treaty is an assumption that the participants will honor the terms. Most of the time it is effective, but there are events - such as the Russian invasion of Ukraine - where treaties are broken.

    This doesn't mean treaties are a zero-sum fools game, it just means that treaties are only as good as the commitments to honor them.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I think it's amusing the way people quote from that "framework" as if it will have any bearing at all on what the Iranians do. Fools.
    The current framework - The Joint Comprehensive Plan Of Action (JCPOA) - guarantees IAEA verification.

    If you have a better idea, I would love to hear it.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Which talking heads on Fox "News" preached to you these "facts"?
    What horrible piece of trash taught you to write?

    Name one war that the US got into since WWII that was truly worth getting into. Just one. (Hint: Gulf War I isn't one of them.)

    I'll be waiting.
    So you at least think WWII was worth it? Really? In what way did WWII meet your standards? If nothing else meets your standards I don't see how WWII could have.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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