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Thread: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

  1. #161
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Um. You can link to these major significant changes on the part of the Iranian leadership, can you not?
    You rather naively think I am either pro-Iran or pro-Obama. I fairly much detest both.

    Nevertheless, I do try to avoid placing domestic politics and internal biases ahead of overarching US national interests.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    You rather naively think I am either pro-Iran or pro-Obama. I fairly much detest both.

    Nevertheless, I do try to avoid placing domestic politics and internal biases ahead of overarching US national interests.
    Then you should be able to tell us how "things have changed" to where we can now form a relationship built on trust with the Iranians.


    Because, as near as I can tell, they and their proxies still rabidly hate us, and still see us in a zero sum competition over the region, regardless of what wool they can pull over our Presidents' eyes.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Then you should be able to tell us how "things have changed" to where we can now form a relationship built on trust with the Iranians.


    Because, as near as I can tell, they and their proxies still rabidly hate us, and still see us in a zero sum competition over the region, regardless of what wool they can pull over our Presidents' eyes.
    If the relationship was built on trust, we wouldn't be insisting on thorough inspections.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    If the relationship was built on trust, we wouldn't be insisting on thorough inspections.
    If we didn't trust them we wouldn't be willing to accede to their demands that inspections be planned and they be notified well in advance.

    Though "trust" may be a bad phrasing - it may be well that the President frankly doesn't care, just so long as they don't do it on his watch. Or it may be that he doesn't care because he thinks he's going to rope them in and switch sides in the Middle East, abandoning Saudi Arabia for Iran.


    But the posters' argument is that "the situation has changed" from when Iran was supporting proxies who wanted desperately to kill Americans. Now, from where I'm sitting, it sure looks to me like Iran is still supporting proxies who desperately want to kill Americans. So I'd like to see him break down what has changed within Iranian leadership, and why he thinks that is significant.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  5. #165
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    yet you seem gleeful and 100% trusting of irans "peaceful" desire for nuclear "power".
    "Gleeful"? The only thing im "gleeful" about is that we are taking diplomatic measures instead of forcing something through the barrel of a gun. And no I do not "100% trust" Iran, why do you think I'm in favor of inspectors, and strict international oversight? If I was "trusting of Iran" I wouldnt even care about diplomatic negotiations, and I would just trust their word when they say "we have no nuclear weapons program and our program is 100% peaceful". But, no I do not "trust" why else would I be in favor of negotiations then?


    Despite thier history of the opposite actions and desires even today.
    What would that be?

    This is support of benefitting a fascist regime.
    Its not support...


    thus you support it
    Wow. Quite the strawman you have built there.
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "Gleeful"? The only thing im "gleeful" about is that we are taking diplomatic measures instead of forcing something through the barrel of a gun. And no I do not "100% trust" Iran, why do you think I'm in favor of inspectors, and strict international oversight? If I was "trusting of Iran" I wouldnt even care about diplomatic negotiations, and I would just trust their word when they say "we have no nuclear weapons program and our program is 100% peaceful". But, no I do not "trust" why else would I be in favor of negotiations then?



    What would that be?


    Its not support...



    Wow. Quite the strawman you have built there.



    Iran has a hostility towards inspectors, and has been clear on it's goals, you all stick your heads in the sand and pretend that Iran suddenly has changed it's stripes.


    By letting them get this nuclear power stuff, and lifting the sanctions, you are in support, of the mullahs, and keeping that government's status quo, which is a form of religious, oppressive, facsism.


    You have no idea what a strawman is, it seems.
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Iran has a hostility towards inspectors,
    What kind of "hostility"? You mean not being completely transparent in the past?

    and has been clear on it's goals,
    In your opinion of course.. Iran could demolish every single nuclear site and let the international community view it and you probably still wouldnt be content.

    you all stick your heads in the sand and pretend that Iran suddenly has changed it's stripes.
    Nahhh..

    By letting them get this nuclear power stuff,
    "nuclear power stuff"

    and lifting the sanctions, you are in support, of the mullahs, and keeping that government's status quo, which is a form of religious, oppressive, facsism.
    Every country has the right to "nuclear power stuff" for peaceful means. Stating that they have the right to peaceful "nuclear power stuff" does not mean I support the regime. Its the basic reality.

    You have no idea what a strawman is, it seems.
    No I do. Let me play it out for you.
    I am in favor of 1.)diplomatic negotiations over Irans nuclear energy sector. 2.)I am in favor of this deal/framework. 3.)I am in favor of Iran not getting a nuclear bomb. 4.)I do not suppor the Iranian governments political system, human rights record, etc. You think this means I support a theocratic regime like Iran. Now how did you reach that conclusion? You stated because I uphold the right for the Iranian state to use "nuclear stuff", and then you made a blind accusation that I support the Iranian government, so therefore I support the Iranian regime. That is a textbook defintion of a strawman, one you have used many times.
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    The sanctions regime will crumble if the US walks away from the deal, leaving ONLY a military response that will be internationally condemned, drive Iranians TOWARDS the theocratic regime, further destabilize the Middle East, and will ultimately be less effective than the deal proposed.

    Congrats on being consistently terrible problem solvers, opponents of the deal.

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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    President Rouhani is the former lead nuclear negotiator for Iran. During that time he developed and proposed a strategy to the Supreme Leader which proposed that Iran engage in regular, continual, ever-extended negotiations in order to keep political will for a strike from building in the West while Iran continues development.

    Now he's President. And Iran is engaging in regular, continual, seemingly ever-extended negotiations, which are keeping political will for a strike from building in the West....
    OK so in your view the threat of the hammer is forcing Iran to the table to never ending negotiations. However everyone knows Obama has no intention on using the hammer or even the threat of it.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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  10. #170
    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Iranians See Victory, Hope for New Image in Nuclear Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What kind of "hostility"? You mean not being completely transparent in the past?

    From making IED's to supporting terrorism, to lying about inspections, to calling for the deaths of other nations. I posted a bunch of links in another post.


    Way to minimize it tho, bro.


    In your opinion of course.. Iran could demolish every single nuclear site and let the international community view it and you probably still wouldnt be content.

    if it was completely open without strings, I'd feel much better about it. not shure y u said tat.

    Nahhh..

    Sure you have. you even rationalize Irans past as you did in the above response.


    "nuclear power stuff"
    right, please provide correct terminology and vocabulary that is acceptable in this conversation, I'll make sure not to make light of it in the future.


    Every country has the right to "nuclear power stuff" for peaceful means. Stating that they have the right to peaceful "nuclear power stuff" does not mean I support the regime. Its the basic reality.

    Sure it does, by your posts, your hostile, religious, regime to move forward with this, you are supporting them. simple as that.

    I mean it's a good thing they don't have an anti-gay marriage pizza shop or something.


    No I do. Let me play it out for you.
    I am in favor of 1.)diplomatic negotiations over Irans nuclear energy sector. 2.)I am in favor of this deal/framework. 3.)I am in favor of Iran not getting a nuclear bomb. 4.)I do not suppor the Iranian governments political system, human rights record, etc. You think this means I support a theocratic regime like Iran. Now how did you reach that conclusion? You stated because I uphold the right for the Iranian state to use "nuclear stuff", and then you made a blind accusation that I support the Iranian government, so therefore I support the Iranian regime. That is a textbook defintion of a strawman, one you have used many times.

    incorrect. your positions are what show you as supporting the Iranian religious fascist regime. Your minimization of thier past hostility. your unwavering faith in inspectors ignoring irans hostility in the past to them.

    your support for letting Iran persue nuclear power, even as the country oppresses it's people and calls for the death of other nations, is indeed support for fascism, as by lifting sanctions, and letting them get nuclear energy, they now have the means to continue thier government and oppression in a much more prosperous way.

    You sir, by supporting this "deal", are indeed supporting fascism..
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

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