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Thread: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Is your post an example of how Conservatives use facts to back up their views? I couldn't find a single one.
    I am making an observation based on past mistakes in US diplomacy. Really, the game Iran is playing right now is common. Let your opponent trumpet the conditions of the treaty then deny your own obligations. By denying your obligations you create a situation where the own verifiable obligations are those of your opponent who admitted what they agreed to in the process of detailing the agreement.

    The North Korean treaties to stop nuclear weapon development netted the North Korean government billions in aid if they promised to not enrich uranium and not develop a bomb. The North Koreans then took that aid and made a bomb.

    Sorry for the spoilers.
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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I am making an observation based on past mistakes in US diplomacy. Really, the game Iran is playing right now is common. Let your opponent trumpet the conditions of the treaty then deny your own obligations. By denying your obligations you create a situation where the own verifiable obligations are those of your opponent who admitted what they agreed to in the process of detailing the agreement.

    The North Korean treaties to stop nuclear weapon development netted the North Korean government billions in aid if they promised to not enrich uranium and not develop a bomb. The North Koreans then took that aid and made a bomb.

    Sorry for the spoilers.
    so it would be better to not have an agreement.. not have inspectors on the ground.. and simply let Iran develop nuclear weapons until the point that Israel attacks them and then be involved in a nuclear war...

    Honestly.. whats the downside to this agreement.?

    Its seems that if IRAN really wants to have nuclear weapons.. they are going to get them.. especially if they are isolated and cut off from the world.

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I am making an observation based on past mistakes in US diplomacy. Really, the game Iran is playing right now is common. Let your opponent trumpet the conditions of the treaty then deny your own obligations. By denying your obligations you create a situation where the own verifiable obligations are those of your opponent who admitted what they agreed to in the process of detailing the agreement.

    The North Korean treaties to stop nuclear weapon development netted the North Korean government billions in aid if they promised to not enrich uranium and not develop a bomb. The North Koreans then took that aid and made a bomb. Iran certainly will continue its development if there is no agreement now.

    Sorry for the spoilers.
    LOL So you believe Cotton and his statement that the agreement Clinton made was the reason N. Korea got the bomb? The facts are that the agreement was terminated under GW Bush and then they made a bomb. There is no guarantee that a new President will abide by this agreement either but that hardly makes it not worth doing.

    Were not going to do a Pinocchio Test here, but Cotton cited North Korea for the wrong reasons. The failure of the Agreed Framework, not the deal itself, led to North Korea building and testing nuclear weapons.

    Yet the North Korea example certainly demonstrates how a new administration, skeptical of such an arms-control agreement, could take steps to undermine and eventually terminate it. For obvious political reasons, Clinton chose not to obtain congressional approval. But without an early buy-in from congressional Republicans, once a president from a different party was elected, the North Korea accord was set on a path to failure.
    Cottons misguided history lesson on the North Korean nuclear deal - The Washington Post
    Last edited by iguanaman; 04-06-15 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Kerry says the plan will prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. In the next breath, he says the breakout time will be one year. The two ideas directly contradict each other.

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Then there will be no agreement so what are you worried about? It seems alot of the right wing are jumping to conclusions. It is almost like they want this to fail and Iran to go on developing nuclear weapons unabated. What is you reasoning for that since you claim it is not because you want a war with Iran.
    WTH are you talking about, the people opposed to this think that's exactly what the framework/agreement/whatever allows.
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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    WTH are you talking about, the people opposed to this think that's exactly what the framework/agreement/whatever allows.
    How can they do that with inspectors at every facility? Do you actually think the inspectors are going to help them build a bomb? I wouldn't be surprised given your other posts.

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    Kerry says the plan will prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. In the next breath, he says the breakout time will be one year. The two ideas directly contradict each other.
    Iran is currently estimated to have a 2 month breakout. Iran knows how to build them and that won't change but their incentive to build one can. That is why there will be constant inspections and other safeguards. As long as the agreement holds there will be no bomb for at least 10 years. Is that better than 2 months?

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    so it would be better to not have an agreement.. not have inspectors on the ground.. and simply let Iran develop nuclear weapons until the point that Israel attacks them and then be involved in a nuclear war...

    Honestly.. whats the downside to this agreement.?

    Its seems that if IRAN really wants to have nuclear weapons.. they are going to get them.. especially if they are isolated and cut off from the world.
    Yes, it would be better to not commit the US government to anything so cockamamie as an agreement with Iran on anything.

    The downside of this agreement is that it gives a brutal regime wads of cache to fund their terrorist programs on the promise that they will build their nuclear weapons program slower.

    A deal with Iran should include the public acknowledgement of the state of Iran, and complete withdraw of aid to terrorist organizations and political reform.

    The Nuclear weapon is actually a secondary concern with the state of Iran. Nuclear weapons are only a world concern because the Iranian state is a bat-guano crazy hate-filled dictatorship that preaches the death of other nation states.

    If these conditions are not acceptable to Iran then up the sanctions until the conditions are acceptable to the state of Iran. They shouldn't be given a dime until they de-crazy themselves.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    Kerry says the plan will prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. In the next breath, he says the breakout time will be one year. The two ideas directly contradict each other.
    No.. not really. It means that he thinks that the incentives to not build one will prevent them from building one... and in a worse case scenario.. if they break the agreement it will take a year before they can get one.

    which makes sense. Its diplomacy.. you aren't making anyone do actually anything.. its an AGREEMENT... if Iran agrees to this.. and we get inspectors and they initially abide by the agreement.. it will reduce their capacity to engage in nuclear weapons... maybe they will abide by it forever... but if they don't.. it will still increase the time that they need to develop one.

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    Re: What's in the Iran nuclear deal? 7 key points

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Yes, it would be better to not commit the US government to anything so cockamamie as an agreement with Iran on anything.

    The downside of this agreement is that it gives a brutal regime wads of cache to fund their terrorist programs on the promise that they will build their nuclear weapons program slower.

    A deal with Iran should include the public acknowledgement of the state of Iran, and complete withdraw of aid to terrorist organizations and political reform.

    The Nuclear weapon is actually a secondary concern with the state of Iran. Nuclear weapons are only a world concern because the Iranian state is a bat-guano crazy hate-filled dictatorship that preaches the death of other nation states.

    If these conditions are not acceptable to Iran then up the sanctions until the conditions are acceptable to the state of Iran. They shouldn't be given a dime until they de-crazy themselves.
    So in other words.. the way to deal with Iran is to not deal with Iran? That makes no sense whatsoever.

    And the agreement hinges on them complying with the agreement. The agreement stipulates that they have to endure inspections.. it reduces the amount of nuclear material they can have. Reduces the number of centrifuges etc.

    The idea that Iran has to renounce everything doesn't make sense.

    The reality is that what keeps the crazies in power in Iran is isolationism. What else do the people have to turn to? The hardliners in Iran are praying to Allah right now that the US rejects this deal. That would be the best thing to keep the hardliners in power.

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