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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Sorry, but you are confusing liberty and security. There's nothing unfair about denyig someone your services because no one has a right to those services. It's no more unfair than the homosexual who refuses to patronize a business that won't provide services to homosexual weddings

No, you are confusing liberty and being discriminating asswipes.

There is something hugely unfair about denying someone basic service from customers because the owner of that business is a discriminating extremist. The law and basic decency, something those businesses seem to forget in their fight for "freedom" and their religious purity (even when it goes against the nature of their faith, I am pretty damned sure Jesus would frown upon serving someone food because that person happened to be gay) that they seem to forget that they are not above the law.

Even their precious bible says:

Romans 13:1-7: “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

And even their arrogance about serving others is not really approved by the bible either:

Peter 4:10 says "As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace"


Judging is wrong, I doubt the bible supports judging others and denying them service.
 
Just so we understand your question, what kind of services would a homosexual couple require at their wedding that they would need to contract with an EMT, doctor, pharmacist or firefighter ahead of time?
I do not think you could as it is clearly way over your head.
 
No, you are confusing liberty and being discriminating asswipes.
If you can't discriminate, you don't have liberty

There is something hugely unfair about denying someone basic service from customers because the owner of that business is a discriminating extremist. The law and basic decency, something those businesses seem to forget in their fight for "freedom" and their religious purity (even when it goes against the nature of their faith, I am pretty damned sure Jesus would frown upon serving someone food because that person happened to be gay) that they seem to forget that they are not above the law.
It may just be me, but I don't count pizza at a wedding as a basic service

Even their precious bible says:

Romans 13:1-7: “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

And even their arrogance about serving others is not really approved by the bible either:

Peter 4:10 says "As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace"


Judging is wrong, I doubt the bible supports judging others and denying them service.

Acts 5:28-29 "...“We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
 
I do not think you could as it is clearly way over your head.
No, it didn't go over my head. I fully recognized the straw man and posed the question that exposes it for being such.
 
If you can't discriminate, you don't have liberty

If you are allowed to discriminate than you limit liberty and take liberty from others.

It may just be me, but I don't count pizza at a wedding as a basic service

But it is not up to you to decide if someone wants to eat pizza at a wedding. For all we know the caterer got ill and they need something to feed hungry family members who came from far to attend their wedding.

Food, restaurant are basic service, the law clearly says so. Restaurants (and a pizza place is a restaurant) is banned from discrimination.

Acts 5:28-29 "...“We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

And since when does god say "thou shalt not sell pizza to gays"? Nice try but you can obey god and still follow the law and not be a force of evil (which is discrimination IMHO, an act of evil and not of love, an act of disrespect and sinning rather than one of respect and wanting not to sin).
 
If you are allowed to discriminate than you limit liberty and take liberty from others.



But it is not up to you to decide if someone wants to eat pizza at a wedding. For all we know the caterer got ill and they need something to feed hungry family members who came from far to attend their wedding.

Food, restaurant are basic service, the law clearly says so. Restaurants (and a pizza place is a restaurant) is banned from discrimination.



And since when does god say "thou shalt not sell pizza to gays"? Nice try but you can obey god and still follow the law and not be a force of evil (which is discrimination IMHO, an act of evil and not of love, an act of disrespect and sinning rather than one of respect and wanting not to sin).

Jesus was against gay marriage. Why do so many people not know this? Do they read the Bible or just browse through it, see just one verse, "do not judge" and then never read anything else.
 
Jesus was against gay marriage. Why do so many people not know this? Do they read the Bible or just browse through it, see just one verse, "do not judge" and then never read anything else.

Really? Please quote where he states that he is against gay marriage?

It is well known that the bible is anti-gay, but I would think that would be the duty of god, not of men to judge.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Apparently they have no problem with homosexuals since they have stated that if they come through the door wanting a pizza then they will sell them one with absolutely no problem in doing so. They just wouldn't cater a gay wedding. Its gay weddings that they are against. Not gays themselves.

And there's a difference between statistics and polls. ;) Polls might use statistics, but statistics do not use polls. Polls are mainly about peoples opinions. Statistics rely more on math and facts.

this simply doesn't past the test of honesty (on them not you)
thier problem is in fact with gays, yes they will serve them in some ways but they in fact view gays as lessers and not equal to themselves

Like i keep repeating the perfect example I came across this would be like serving blacks on in the ally and back door and not allowing them in the front or in the dining room, or hiring women to only be secretaries and cleaning ladies but not allowing them to be bosses.

would we then say they don't have a problem with blacks because they do serve them, just not with white or in the dining room, r they don't have a problem with women, they do hire them just not as bosses.

I know i would never say that because it simply not true, its a shame that nobody honest, educated and objective would buy
 
Could you explain how has your life, our faith or your beliefs have been affected by this ramming down your throat?

My life has been impacted by constantly having to listen to the whining of the activists that moan that they want someone who doesn't want to provide a service that can easily be found elsewhere to be forced to provide it for them. Because it's not that they can't get the service provided, they want to force the person turning them down to suffer for their beliefs...It's childish, and selfish....

As far as "our faith", I'm not sure how "YOUR" faith is impacted, but this is, in general going after faith that decries homosexuality through scripture in the sense that government has gone after, in court faith based institutions for other areas, and precedents are just that...It's a matter of time before we have to hear of an LGBT couple suing the Church, or Temple for refusing to preform their service.

Finally as for "my beliefs''... I have repeated myself more than I care to do in these threads. If you don't know by now how I stand on gay couples getting married, or their relationships in real life, then you just haven't been paying attention, or reading....But, I'll say it one last time, and read it good this time k?

I don't care if gay people get married, adopt children, or live together what ever... I've known some incredible people over my lifetime that happened to be gay, and I've known some real ****heads that were straight, so in the end live and let live. Would that the militants today had the same view on living and let living eh? But they don't, so even though I don't have any personal problem with gay people living their lives, they have a problem with me defending others rights to do business with whom they choose....

So, are we clear now?
 
They got some bad press and a few bad yelp reviews. Is that bullying nowadays? One whacko is going to jail for threatening to burn down the place. That is about as close to bullying as you can get. Otherwise, both support and opposition are free market responses. There is no state involvement to bully people in this case.

A few??? This shop went from 4 total Yelp reviews logged in the days before, to over 1200 the day after...Yes, that's bullying....The elementary school teacher that threatened to burn down his shop SHOULD go to jail, and loose his job teaching young kids. Period. And you analysis that there is "no state involvement in bullying people" is correct. It's the opposite...This was a coordinated, ginned up controversy in order for the militants to bully the state into changing the wording of a law that mirrors the Federal law they agreed with when Clinton signed it...It's got all the alarm bells of political hypocrisy, faux outrage, and vitriolic attack. So, in the end you have that part exactly backwards 180 degrees.
 
1.)My life has been impacted by constantly having to listen to the whining of the activists that moan that they want someone who doesn't want to provide a service that can easily be found elsewhere to be forced to provide it for them. Because it's not that they can't get the service provided, they want to force the person turning them down to suffer for their beliefs...It's childish, and selfish....

2.)As far as "our faith", I'm not sure how "YOUR" faith is impacted, but this is, in general going after faith that decries homosexuality through scripture in the sense that government has gone after, in court faith based institutions for other areas, and precedents are just that...

3.)It's a matter of time before we have to hear of an LGBT couple suing the Church, or Temple for refusing to preform their service.

Finally as for "my beliefs''... I have repeated myself more than I care to do in these threads. If you don't know by now how I stand on gay couples getting married, or their relationships in real life, then you just haven't been paying attention, or reading....But, I'll say it one last time, and read it good this time k?

I don't care if gay people get married, adopt children, or live together what ever... I've known some incredible people over my lifetime that happened to be gay, and I've known some real ****heads that were straight, so in the end live and let live.

5.) Would that the militants today had the same view on living and let living eh?

6.) But they don't, so even though I don't have any personal problem with gay people living their lives, they have a problem with me defending others rights to do business with whom they choose....

So, are we clear now?

1.) YEAH! damn those people wanting equal rights and not wanting people to break the law and or violate the rights of others!!! Iwish blacks and woman would have kept thier mouths shut too and not fought for equal rights and just let people mistreat them, break the law and or violate thier rights . . . wow
sorry there is no force from them nor is wanting equal rights, childish or selfish LMAO
very simple solution, dont break the law or violate peoples rights

2.) nobody is going after "faith" thats a boat that sinks everytime and is never taken seriously by anybody honest educated and objective

3.) probably, im sure there will be some loons that try and they will fail just like . . wait for it . . wait for it . . .. . the STRAIGHTS and INTERRACIAL couples and many other that have tri. The "church" discriminates everyday to straight couples right now and they can because they are protected by the constitution. this isnt changing and is in no danger for the minority loons out thier, if they excist that want to try it.

4.) good then let people continue thier fight for right and wrong and stop crying about it and making up hyperbolic crap that is only worthy of laughter lol

5.) you keep saying live and let live and its a crock, where else would you apply this logic? what other crimes and violations of rights.
if your wife, daughter, mother were raped would you just say live and let live? what if they were just sexually harrassed etc etc. give me the list please. Arson? assault? murder? destruction of property? Theft? etc Theres nothign wrong with people fighting for equal rights and reporting criminals when they come across them lol


that right isnt in danger so you dont have to worry, thats another fantasy

6.) yes its clear that you say you support equal rights but you simply dont want people fighting for them, they should just sit back and wait to see if it just happen, take the abuse and let criminals be criminals. Got it.
 
1.) YEAH! damn those people wanting equal rights and not wanting people to break the law and or violate the rights of others!!! Iwish blacks and woman would have kept thier mouths shut too and not fought for equal rights and just let people mistreat them, break the law and or violate thier rights . . . wow
sorry there is no force from them nor is wanting equal rights, childish or selfish LMAO
very simple solution, dont break the law or violate peoples rights

Well, that's just silly...You're getting all worked up because you don't like that someone says they are exhausted hearing the same intolerant babble from you militants over and over as you try to bear force to make everyone love you....LMAO!

2.) nobody is going after "faith" thats a boat that sinks everytime and is never taken seriously by anybody honest educated and objective

Your pseudo intellectual babble aside, "Wedding chapel owners Donald and Evelyn Knapp said they feared jail time or fines if they declined marriage services to a same-sex couple.

Initially, the city said its anti-discrimination law did apply to the Hitching Post, since it is a commercial business. Earlier this week, Coeur d'Alene city attorney Mike Gridley sent a letter to the Knapps’ attorneys at the Alliance Defending Freedom saying the Hitching Post would have to become a not-for-profit to be exempt.

But Gridley said after further review, he determined the ordinance doesn’t specify non-profit or for-profit.

After we've looked at this some more, we have come to the conclusion they would be exempt from our ordinance because they are a religious corporation,” Gridley explained."

Coeur d'Alene Says Hitching Post Is Exempt From Gay Rights Law | Boise State Public Radio

LMAO

3.) probably, im sure there will be some loons that try and they will fail just like . . wait for it . . wait for it . . .. . the STRAIGHTS and INTERRACIAL couples and many other that have tri. The "church" discriminates everyday to straight couples right now and they can because they are protected by the constitution. this isnt changing and is in no danger for the minority loons out thier, if they excist that want to try it.

The laws, maybe not, but definitions certainly are. LMAO

4.) good then let people continue thier fight for right and wrong and stop crying about it and making up hyperbolic crap that is only worthy of laughter lol

You can't continue to push everyone around without expecting not to get pushed back...LMAO

5.) you keep saying live and let live and its a crock, where else would you apply this logic? what other crimes and violations of rights.
if your wife, daughter, mother were raped would you just say live and let live? what if they were just sexually harrassed etc etc. give me the list please. Arson? assault? murder? destruction of property? Theft? etc Theres nothign wrong with people fighting for equal rights and reporting criminals when they come across them lol

Wow! Talk about laughable hyperbole....Are you seriously comparing refusing to marry a gay couple to murder? Does that mean that you also think that refusing to marry a gay couple should carry the possibility of the death penalty? LMAO

that right isnt in danger so you dont have to worry, thats another fantasy

The only fantasy here is yours if you think you can bully your way into changing minds, and attitudes...Yours and other militants do a dis service to the gay rights community. LMAO

6.) yes its clear that you say you support equal rights but you simply dont want people fighting for them, they should just sit back and wait to see if it just happen, take the abuse and let criminals be criminals. Got it.

Not at all...But then again, who expects you to be honest in characterizing others opposing viewpoints...it would shock me if you started now...LMAO
 
A few??? This shop went from 4 total Yelp reviews logged in the days before, to over 1200 the day after...Yes, that's bullying....The elementary school teacher that threatened to burn down his shop SHOULD go to jail, and loose his job teaching young kids. Period. And you analysis that there is "no state involvement in bullying people" is correct. It's the opposite...This was a coordinated, ginned up controversy in order for the militants to bully the state into changing the wording of a law that mirrors the Federal law they agreed with when Clinton signed it...It's got all the alarm bells of political hypocrisy, faux outrage, and vitriolic attack. So, in the end you have that part exactly backwards 180 degrees.

Dude, the Indiana law had already been changed and signed before all this went down. Get over it. This is the free market response. They got bad reviews on Yelp and hundreds of thousands of dollars for their troubles. If that constitutes bullying then give me some of that. As per the law before it was changed, it did not mirror the federal law. That is a lie.
 
1.)Well, that's just silly...You're getting all worked up because you don't like that someone says they are exhausted hearing the same intolerant babble from you militants over and over as you try to bear force to make everyone love you....LMAO!

2.)Your pseudo intellectual babble aside, "Wedding chapel owners Donald and Evelyn Knapp said they feared jail time or fines if they declined marriage services to a same-sex couple.

Initially, the city said its anti-discrimination law did apply to the Hitching Post, since it is a commercial business. Earlier this week, Coeur d'Alene city attorney Mike Gridley sent a letter to the Knapps’ attorneys at the Alliance Defending Freedom saying the Hitching Post would have to become a not-for-profit to be exempt.

But Gridley said after further review, he determined the ordinance doesn’t specify non-profit or for-profit.

After we've looked at this some more, we have come to the conclusion they would be exempt from our ordinance because they are a religious corporation,” Gridley explained."

Coeur d'Alene Says Hitching Post Is Exempt From Gay Rights Law | Boise State Public Radio

LMAO

3.)The laws, maybe not, but definitions certainly are. LMAO

4.)You can't continue to push everyone around without expecting not to get pushed back...LMAO

5.)Wow! Talk about laughable hyperbole....Are you seriously comparing refusing to marry a gay couple to murder? Does that mean that you also think that refusing to marry a gay couple should carry the possibility of the death penalty? LMAO

6.)The only fantasy here is yours if you think you can bully your way into changing minds, and attitudes...

7.) Yours and other militants do a dis service to the gay rights community. LMAO
8.)Not at all...But then again, who expects you to be honest in characterizing others opposing viewpoints...it would shock me if you started now...LMAO

1.) ahhhh who got worked up? LMAO is right, more made up fantasies
Ithere is no force to make you love anybody thats the silly hyperbolic and dishonest part that gets laughed at by the majority
I simply used an example of what you were saying to show how mentally retarded it was.
2.) what they feared and what happen in reality were two different things, try learning the story before posting false hood and expose how extremly uneducated you are on this topic. There were never even official charges brought on against thier BUSINESS (not a church) . . FAIL
what happened was the owners werent stupid and they CHANGED thier services they offer and classification. they were dumb and commuted crimes lie other business owners. . fail 2

like i said the fact remain nobody is going after "FAITH", if a rapist is convicted of rape it wasn't cause of his FAITH

3.) translation the church is still protected by the Constitution and your opinions of definitions dont change anything . . . fail 3

4.) who is being pushed around? see thats the hyperbolic crap thats get laughed at
you mean the people that think they have the right ot break the law and illegally discriminate against other? awwwwwww
just like the ones that think blacks are n-words and woman should only be in the kitchen awwwww fail 4
5.) yes but under MY context not under the dishonesty one you tried to paint since your posts got destroyed and lost. they are both rights infringements and breaking of the law so again i ask WHICH ones should you just say live and let live.I noticed you didnt answer my question and give me a list? fail 5
please do not dodge this question in the next post and give me the list of things that break the law and violated peoples rights that should just be ignored
6.) LMAO! again can you quote where i said I want to change minds and attitudes . . oh thats right it was never said fail 6
7.) is that why equal rights is winning? oooops fail 7
also please point out these militant views of mine that you say i have. List those and provide one fact they are militant. I bet this is another request you dodge because you cant support that claim and its more made up hyperbole that just gets laughed at.
8.) hey look a deflection and failed insult, this is common when a person cant defend thier posted lies and proven wrong claims . . no shock here. fail 8
also that is in fact how you feel described by your own words, if you disagree change your words, tell us what people who have thier rights violated and she the law get broken against them should do? we are all ears
Please let us know when you can defend any of your proven wrong claims and answer the questions instead of dodge them, thank you
facts win again
 
Well, that's just silly...You're getting all worked up because you don't like that someone says they are exhausted hearing the same intolerant babble from you militants over and over as you try to bear force to make everyone love you....LMAO!



Your pseudo intellectual babble aside, "Wedding chapel owners Donald and Evelyn Knapp said they feared jail time or fines if they declined marriage services to a same-sex couple.

Initially, the city said its anti-discrimination law did apply to the Hitching Post, since it is a commercial business. Earlier this week, Coeur d'Alene city attorney Mike Gridley sent a letter to the Knapps’ attorneys at the Alliance Defending Freedom saying the Hitching Post would have to become a not-for-profit to be exempt.

But Gridley said after further review, he determined the ordinance doesn’t specify non-profit or for-profit.

After we've looked at this some more, we have come to the conclusion they would be exempt from our ordinance because they are a religious corporation,” Gridley explained."

Coeur d'Alene Says Hitching Post Is Exempt From Gay Rights Law | Boise State Public Radio

LMAO



The laws, maybe not, but definitions certainly are. LMAO



You can't continue to push everyone around without expecting not to get pushed back...LMAO



Wow! Talk about laughable hyperbole....Are you seriously comparing refusing to marry a gay couple to murder? Does that mean that you also think that refusing to marry a gay couple should carry the possibility of the death penalty? LMAO



The only fantasy here is yours if you think you can bully your way into changing minds, and attitudes...Yours and other militants do a dis service to the gay rights community. LMAO



Not at all...But then again, who expects you to be honest in characterizing others opposing viewpoints...it would shock me if you started now...LMAO

I like that this is the case you keep arguing. The one where a couple asked the city if it's ordinance would affect them, reorganized as a religious corporation, and then sued under the premise of what the city had said before they reorganized. What a great and compelling argument. And how terrified they were given that no complaints had even been made against them until long after they threatened the city. This truly is a winning case for your side.
 
4.) good then let people continue thier fight for right and wrong and stop crying about it and making up hyperbolic crap that is only worthy of laughter lol

5.) you keep saying live and let live and its a crock, where else would you apply this logic? what other crimes and violations of rights.
if your wife, daughter, mother were raped would you just say live and let live? what if they were just sexually harrassed etc etc. give me the list please. Arson? assault? murder? destruction of property? Theft? etc Theres nothign wrong with people fighting for equal rights and reporting criminals when they come across them lol

Oh the IRONY!
 
1.) ahhhh who got worked up? LMAO is right, more made up fantasies
Ithere is no force to make you love anybody thats the silly hyperbolic and dishonest part that gets laughed at by the majority
I simply used an example of what you were saying to show how mentally retarded it was.
2.) what they feared and what happen in reality were two different things, try learning the story before posting false hood and expose how extremly uneducated you are on this topic. There were never even official charges brought on against thier BUSINESS (not a church) . . FAIL
what happened was the owners werent stupid and they CHANGED thier services they offer and classification. they were dumb and commuted crimes lie other business owners. . fail 2

like i said the fact remain nobody is going after "FAITH", if a rapist is convicted of rape it wasn't cause of his FAITH

3.) translation the church is still protected by the Constitution and your opinions of definitions dont change anything . . . fail 3

4.) who is being pushed around? see thats the hyperbolic crap thats get laughed at
you mean the people that think they have the right ot break the law and illegally discriminate against other? awwwwwww
just like the ones that think blacks are n-words and woman should only be in the kitchen awwwww fail 4
5.) yes but under MY context not under the dishonesty one you tried to paint since your posts got destroyed and lost. they are both rights infringements and breaking of the law so again i ask WHICH ones should you just say live and let live.I noticed you didnt answer my question and give me a list? fail 5
please do not dodge this question in the next post and give me the list of things that break the law and violated peoples rights that should just be ignored
6.) LMAO! again can you quote where i said I want to change minds and attitudes . . oh thats right it was never said fail 6
7.) is that why equal rights is winning? oooops fail 7
also please point out these militant views of mine that you say i have. List those and provide one fact they are militant. I bet this is another request you dodge because you cant support that claim and its more made up hyperbole that just gets laughed at.
8.) hey look a deflection and failed insult, this is common when a person cant defend thier posted lies and proven wrong claims . . no shock here. fail 8
also that is in fact how you feel described by your own words, if you disagree change your words, tell us what people who have thier rights violated and she the law get broken against them should do? we are all ears
Please let us know when you can defend any of your proven wrong claims and answer the questions instead of dodge them, thank you
facts win again

Ugh...It's clear that now you are getting all pissy....so we're done here....Once again thanks for proving that trying to have a conversation with you only ends up in an exercise of futility because you can't have a civil, intelligent conversation with anyone who disagrees with you....Sorry you're so closed minded....

Have a nice day.
 
I like that this is the case you keep arguing. The one where a couple asked the city if it's ordinance would affect them, reorganized as a religious corporation, and then sued under the premise of what the city had said before they reorganized. What a great and compelling argument. And how terrified they were given that no complaints had even been made against them until long after they threatened the city. This truly is a winning case for your side.

Might I suggest that you re read the article....
 
Oh the IRONY!

no irony there because im not comparing them in that fashion, the comparison has CONTEXT :D
the claim was made that it should be live and let live on something that violates rights and break laws, so the question is what other things that violate rights and break laws should we just say live and let live and asked for a list.

so theres no hyperbole unless its in vent in ones on mind, content is very important ;)
 
1.)Ugh...It's clear that now you are getting all pissy....so we're done here...
2.).Once again thanks for proving that trying to have a conversation with you only ends up in an exercise of futility because you can't have a civil, intelligent conversation with anyone who disagrees with you....
3.)Sorry you're so closed minded....
4.)Have a nice day.

1.) wrong again but if you want to use that for an excuse to run away and doge my questions since theres no defense for the failed and proven wrong arguments you had that's fine by me, nobody honest will fall for it
2.) weird, remind me who tried to insult who first? you are even doing it now . . oooooops nothing like owning yourself. Also thread history disagrees with you :D
you will continue to have your own personal issue when you post lies and ignor facts, i wish you luck on fixing it
3.) another perfect example of that civility you claim to have that i dont oooops again
4.) i will, its always a nice day when facts triumph and win . .I accept your concession . . . you try to do the same.
 
no irony there because im not comparing them in that fashion, the comparison has CONTEXT :D
the claim was made that it should be live and let live on something that violates rights and break laws, so the question is what other things that violate rights and break laws should we just say live and let live and asked for a list.

so theres no hyperbole unless its in vent in ones on mind, content is very important ;)

Except that no one has the right to someone else's property. And there is an obvious difference between refusing to serve at a gay wedding and murdering someone. Live and let live would be violated by murder, rape, theft etc etc. Not forcing someone to cater a gay wedding however reflects exactly what the term "live and let live" means. You used ...what were your own words.... "good then let people continue thier fight for right and wrong and stop crying about it and making up hyperbolic crap that is only worthy of laughter lol" And then turned right around and used hyperbolic crap that is only worthy of laughter.
 
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