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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

roguenuke said:
First of all, they said they wouldn't provide pizza to someone who came into their pizzeria, no mention of them actually having to deliver the pizza.
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You don't even know what the owners said. Why are you involving yourself here if you're not familiar with the facts?

"The O’Connors said they would not deny service to people who came into the restaurant based on their sexual orientation, but would draw the line at providing service for a same-sex wedding ceremony".
 
Grant said:
You don't even know what the owners said. Why are you involving yourself here if you're not familiar with the facts?

"The O’Connors said they would not deny service to people who came into the restaurant based on their sexual orientation, but would draw the line at providing service for a same-sex wedding ceremony".
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It's on video of her saying that. On the video that started this whole thing.

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIU7Qy5VqE4ApRAsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Michiana+pizzeria&vid=e4d937a2cfd88fdd0aff531a206dbb8b&l=5%3A36&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.4 zrmzIA%252btK%252fDVM6Tz4uciA%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG0 VJkk3WFm4&tit=Indiana+RFRA%3A+%26%2339%3BMemories+Pizza%26%2 339%3B+First+Michiana+Business+to+Publicly+Deny+Sa me+Sex+Service&c=0&sigr=11aa7abt4&sigt=1308fqp1a&sigi=1237j96rt&age=1427916900&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b[/video]

They didn't say providing service, she said providing pizzas. They have never catered any event, ever. So the only thing they could be referring to would be providing pizzas to people ordering them at the counter, mentioning they would be used at a same sex wedding, something they said they couldn't do because that would be condoning the wedding, something they did not agree with. The people interviewing them after the controversy concerning them started were very careful to avoid getting into exactly how she phrased it in the first video because they wanted to play it off as if they weren't really going to ever have any chance of refusing a same sex couple because they didn't actually "cater" any event. But that isn't what she said. They can simply say "we don't provide catering services at all" if anyone asked them to cater any wedding, gay or straight. (Who would expect them to anyways if they don't have anything saying they do that?) But the way she phrased it is more likely (even if still unlikely given the nature of the event and the type of food) to happen, a person coming up to the counter or ordering over the phone several pizzas to take or pick up to take to a "gay" wedding.
 
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

j-mac said:
No doubt in my mind.
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Yes, you're apparently supposed to feel awful because her doctor had to call it in to the local CVS instead of the local Walgreens.

Oh, the humanity!
 
roguenuke said:
Not "absence", refusal of one. There is a difference.
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:roll: Oh please....You're just mad that your's and other liberal extremist use of an argument that was so ridiculous as to be akin to using a sledge hammer to kill a fly, and having it bounce back and nail you in the head.

Look, I've said it many, many times on these boards, and anyone that knows me, I mean really knows me, knows that I couldn't care less if homosexuals get married. I've stuck up in the past for their rights to be involved in life decisions, visiting rights in end time decisions, adoption, and other areas, many times arguing against my conservative brethren. But this is getting carried away...When the militant gay community joins up with the loony professional activist crowd to start forcing their belief system down everyone's throat, then they cross the line...Lot's of people may stick up for the underdog, but not when that underdog becomes the bully, and that's what this has become.
 
j-mac said:
:roll: Oh please....You're just mad that your's and other liberal extremist use of an argument that was so ridiculous as to be akin to using a sledge hammer to kill a fly, and having it bounce back and nail you in the head.

Look, I've said it many, many times on these boards, and anyone that knows me, I mean really knows me, knows that I couldn't care less if homosexuals get married. I've stuck up in the past for their rights to be involved in life decisions, visiting rights in end time decisions, adoption, and other areas, many times arguing against my conservative brethren. But this is getting carried away...When the militant gay community joins up with the loony professional activist crowd to start forcing their belief system down everyone's throat, then they cross the line...Lot's of people may stick up for the underdog, but not when that underdog becomes the bully, and that's what this has become.
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This is about public accommodation laws, laws that ensure fairness in trade.

I'm fine with people declaring that they don't support same sex marriage, feel it is against their religion, but will still serve everyone, including people trying to get items for a same sex wedding, because 9 times out of 10, just saying that will get respect from the person and have them go somewhere else. There is always that asshole. But guess what? We all have to deal with assholes when we have jobs. It happens.
 
roguenuke said:
This is about public accommodation laws, laws that ensure fairness in trade.

I'm fine with people declaring that they don't support same sex marriage, feel it is against their religion, but will still serve everyone, including people trying to get items for a same sex wedding, because 9 times out of 10, just saying that will get respect from the person and have them go somewhere else. There is always that asshole. But guess what? We all have to deal with assholes when we have jobs. It happens.
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Except this wasn't about some asshole that wouldn't serve gays or anything of the sort...This was an activist reporter that wanted to invent a controversy in this little town by searching out an establishment in the town that was displaying an Easter display in their pizza joint, and going in and inventing a premise that wouldn't exist in actual life for them....

They even said that they couldn't care less if gays came into their establishment and wanted to order a pizza, they would serve them like any other customer...but NO, that wasn't good enough, they had to agree to go further and do something that they don't offer in the first place, catering, and when the response was no, that was a jackpot for the intolerant militants to target them, and threaten everything from disrupting their business, to burning it down...you should be proud that you are defending that mindset....not.

If it is about 'public accommodation' then go after it in the legislature, not with the mob....

This isn't about whether or not you personally feel that people have a right to their religious beliefs anymore, this is about the liberal 'mob machine' using force to get done on the street what they can't get done in the legislature...if you ask me it's un American.
 
roguenuke said:
It's on video of her saying that. On the video that started this whole thing.

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIU7Qy5VqE4ApRAsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Michiana+pizzeria&vid=e4d937a2cfd88fdd0aff531a206dbb8b&l=5%3A36&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.4 zrmzIA%252btK%252fDVM6Tz4uciA%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG0 VJkk3WFm4&tit=Indiana+RFRA%3A+%26%2339%3BMemories+Pizza%26%2 339%3B+First+Michiana+Business+to+Publicly+Deny+Sa me+Sex+Service&c=0&sigr=11aa7abt4&sigt=1308fqp1a&sigi=1237j96rt&age=1427916900&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b[/video]

They didn't say providing service, she said providing pizzas. They have never catered any event, ever. So the only thing they could be referring to would be providing pizzas to people ordering them at the counter, mentioning they would be used at a same sex wedding, something they said they couldn't do because that would be condoning the wedding, something they did not agree with. The people interviewing them after the controversy concerning them started were very careful to avoid getting into exactly how she phrased it in the first video because they wanted to play it off as if they weren't really going to ever have any chance of refusing a same sex couple because they didn't actually "cater" any event. But that isn't what she said. They can simply say "we don't provide catering services at all" if anyone asked them to cater any wedding, gay or straight. (Who would expect them to anyways if they don't have anything saying they do that?) But the way she phrased it is more likely (even if still unlikely given the nature of the event and the type of food) to happen, a person coming up to the counter or ordering over the phone several pizzas to take or pick up to take to a "gay" wedding.
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And if you watch the video and see the frontage of the shop, the sign says "We Deliver".
 
roguenuke said:
This is about public accommodation laws, laws that ensure fairness in trade.

I'm fine with people declaring that they don't support same sex marriage, feel it is against their religion, but will still serve everyone, including people trying to get items for a same sex wedding, because 9 times out of 10, just saying that will get respect from the person and have them go somewhere else. There is always that asshole. But guess what? We all have to deal with assholes when we have jobs. It happens.
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There's no fairness in forcing people to violate their consciences
 
roguenuke said:
It's on video of her saying that. On the video that started this whole thing.

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIU7Qy5VqE4ApRAsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Michiana+pizzeria&vid=e4d937a2cfd88fdd0aff531a206dbb8b&l=5%3A36&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.4 zrmzIA%252btK%252fDVM6Tz4uciA%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DG0 VJkk3WFm4&tit=Indiana+RFRA%3A+%26%2339%3BMemories+Pizza%26%2 339%3B+First+Michiana+Business+to+Publicly+Deny+Sa me+Sex+Service&c=0&sigr=11aa7abt4&sigt=1308fqp1a&sigi=1237j96rt&age=1427916900&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b[/video]

They didn't say providing service, she said providing pizzas. They have never catered any event, ever. So the only thing they could be referring to would be providing pizzas to people ordering them at the counter, mentioning they would be used at a same sex wedding, something they said they couldn't do because that would be condoning the wedding, something they did not agree with. The people interviewing them after the controversy concerning them started were very careful to avoid getting into exactly how she phrased it in the first video because they wanted to play it off as if they weren't really going to ever have any chance of refusing a same sex couple because they didn't actually "cater" any event. But that isn't what she said. They can simply say "we don't provide catering services at all" if anyone asked them to cater any wedding, gay or straight. (Who would expect them to anyways if they don't have anything saying they do that?) But the way she phrased it is more likely (even if still unlikely given the nature of the event and the type of food) to happen, a person coming up to the counter or ordering over the phone several pizzas to take or pick up to take to a "gay" wedding.
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It seems you really haven't watched the video. They say again that they would serve Gays but not serve Gay weddings. Anything beyond that is what you appear to be reading into it.
 
j-mac said:
:roll: Oh please....You're just mad that your's and other liberal extremist use of an argument that was so ridiculous as to be akin to using a sledge hammer to kill a fly, and having it bounce back and nail you in the head.

Look, I've said it many, many times on these boards, and anyone that knows me, I mean really knows me, knows that I couldn't care less if homosexuals get married. I've stuck up in the past for their rights to be involved in life decisions, visiting rights in end time decisions, adoption, and other areas, many times arguing against my conservative brethren. But this is getting carried away...When the militant gay community joins up with the loony professional activist crowd to start forcing their belief system down everyone's throat, then they cross the line...Lot's of people may stick up for the underdog, but not when that underdog becomes the bully, and that's what this has become.
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And I have a Gay son who eventually wants to get married, which I would certainly support.

But we can understand others who feel differently and that they may not want to cater, supply flowers, etc. and would support that right. It's no problem at all finding another caterer or photographer who would be eager to get the extra business, as well as demonstrate their support and best wishes.
 
j-mac said:
When the militant gay community joins up with the loony professional activist crowd to start forcing their belief system down everyone's throat
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Could you explain how has your life, our faith or your beliefs have been affected by this ramming down your throat?
 
j-mac said:
:roll: Oh please....You're just mad that your's and other liberal extremist use of an argument that was so ridiculous as to be akin to using a sledge hammer to kill a fly, and having it bounce back and nail you in the head.

Look, I've said it many, many times on these boards, and anyone that knows me, I mean really knows me, knows that I couldn't care less if homosexuals get married. I've stuck up in the past for their rights to be involved in life decisions, visiting rights in end time decisions, adoption, and other areas, many times arguing against my conservative brethren. But this is getting carried away...When the militant gay community joins up with the loony professional activist crowd to start forcing their belief system down everyone's throat, then they cross the line...Lot's of people may stick up for the underdog, but not when that underdog becomes the bully, and that's what this has become.
Click to expand...

They got some bad press and a few bad yelp reviews. Is that bullying nowadays? One whacko is going to jail for threatening to burn down the place. That is about as close to bullying as you can get. Otherwise, both support and opposition are free market responses. There is no state involvement to bully people in this case.
 
Grant said:
It's no problem at all finding another caterer or photographer...
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But this is not really about the caterer or florist, because today it is them and tomorrow it is the EMT, the doctor or pharmacist, the fire fighter. You get my point. I have asked so many times before in threads with this topic and have yet to find one intelligent reply, where does one draw the line and why. Are the people in those lines of work not as worthy of their faith as a baker?
 
prometeus said:
But this is not really about the caterer or florist, because today it is them and tomorrow it is the EMT, the doctor or pharmacist, the fire fighter. You get my point. I have asked so many times before in threads with this topic and have yet to find one intelligent reply, where does one draw the line and why. Are the people in those lines of work not as worthy of their faith as a baker?
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But tomorrow it is none of those things. You can see that over the past few years support of Gay marriage has grown remarkably to the point where politicians like the Clinton and Obama, both of whom were once against Gay marriage (Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act) are now for it.

Even the people who started this firestorm have said they would not refuse service to Gays, only Gay weddings. That is their belief and, as with Muslims on the same subject, it should be respected. Perhaps, as with Clinton and Obama, their position may also 'evolve' over time. In the meanwhile why not live and let live rather than forcing people to act against their own sincerely held beliefs. There's enough room for everyone.
 
Blemonds said:
There's no fairness in forcing people to violate their consciences
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But there is even less fairness in racism, sexism and discrimination due to sexual preference.
 
Grant said:
But tomorrow it is none of those things.
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Unless you have the magic crystal ball or some other means of seeing the future, in which case post some good investment tips, you are just optimistic. Unfortunately, history is not very supportive of your optimism. Fact remains that some people will grasp any means and excuses to discriminate. We have already seen cabbies trying to refuse service, pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions, etc. Making discrimination legitimate can and would only embolden others to follow suit, using religion to bludgeon the dignity of others.

That is their belief
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Not really, just a pathetic excuse.

In the meanwhile why not live and let live
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I fail to see how discrimination is letting live...
 
Blemonds said:
And if you watch the video and see the frontage of the shop, the sign says "We Deliver".
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Delivery people don't stick around normally, despite what you may see on TV. Are the delivery people going to take the pizza back if the party is for an anniversary party of a same sex couple.
 
Grant said:
It seems you really haven't watched the video. They say again that they would serve Gays but not serve Gay weddings. Anything beyond that is what you appear to be reading into it.
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She says she will not supply pizzas for a gay wedding. Since they don't cater, and she mentioned someone ordering at the counter, that clearly says that they would refuse the order (even if they never had to leave the counter to provide them).
 
prometeus said:
But this is not really about the caterer or florist, because today it is them and tomorrow it is the EMT, the doctor or pharmacist, the fire fighter. You get my point. I have asked so many times before in threads with this topic and have yet to find one intelligent reply, where does one draw the line and why. Are the people in those lines of work not as worthy of their faith as a baker?
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Just so we understand your question, what kind of services would a homosexual couple require at their wedding that they would need to contract with an EMT, doctor, pharmacist or firefighter ahead of time?
 
Peter King said:
But there is even less fairness in racism, sexism and discrimination due to sexual preference.
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Practiced by citizens, there is no unfairness in any of that. Those are acts of liberty
 
roguenuke said:
Delivery people don't stick around normally, despite what you may see on TV. Are the delivery people going to take the pizza back if the party is for an anniversary party of a same sex couple.
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That seems to be a non-issue since I've never had a delivery person ask me why I ordered pizza
 
Blemonds said:
Practiced by citizens, there is no unfairness in any of that. Those are acts of liberty
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Well that may be your opinion, I think is is extremely unfair and unacceptable. And they are not acts of liberty but acts of denying liberty, fairness and equality.
 
Peter King said:
Well that may be your opinion, I think is is extremely unfair and unacceptable. And they are not acts of liberty but acts of denying liberty, fairness and equality.
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Sorry, but you are confusing liberty and security. There's nothing unfair about denyig someone your services because no one has a right to those services. It's no more unfair than the homosexual who refuses to patronize a business that won't provide services to homosexual weddings
 
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