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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Riiiiiiiiight.

How many men (conservatives or liberals) are going to rush out to proudly declare to all their friends "hey guys!!! Great news!!! I just found out my son is gay!"? How many women are just super happy for that news?

No. I disagree. I wouldn't care if my daughters were gay. I would care about the difficulties they would face from the types of right wing assholes like this.

300px-Homophobia-Discrimination-NoDiversity-03.jpg
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I think it's fair to say Obama's "beliefs" are political as the wind blows.
Gotcha. So he not only presented as a bigot and a homophobe (which was aiiiiiight with liberals) but he is a liar and hypocrite with no principles, morals, and values as well.

OK...I can see that.

But the point wasnt really ABOUT Obama (and it seldom is). The point was about the fact that his position mirrored many if not a majority of conservatives on gay marriage and homosexuality, and for some reason...left leaning folks are real quick to toss out the whole bigot/homophobe thing....to conservatives.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No, your dishonest misrepresentations are nonsense along with the irrelevant cases you cite.

Thank you for your opinion, but I would say the misrepresentations are yours. You neither understand nor care about the constitutional rights involved, and it shows.

The last I checked, no federal law prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation in public accommodations. Where a duty to serve them exists, it is because a state public accommodations law has created it. Those laws may violate various First Amendment rights as applied, and they have been held to do just that in the cases you dismiss as irrelevant.

It's true that these constitutional issues tend to be less likely to come up where a restaurant, hotel, or some other traditional public accommodation is involved. But all sorts of things are defined as "public accommodations" under these laws, and the setting won't always be a pizzeria. There have already been a number of cases in other states involving public accommodations --even commercial ones--where the constitutionality of the law has been much more questionable.

There are several law review articles on the various First Amendment freedoms state public accommodations laws that prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation may violate as applied. There are also three Supreme Court decisions on them. It's obvious you haven't read any of these things, but I doubt you would understand them if you had.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Do you believe it is possible to disagree with a lifestyle choice, believe that gay marriage is wrong, yet still manage to love care and hope for the other persons happiness...even if their beliefs do not agree with yours?

Yes, obviously I do. It's why I support SSM and believe everyone should as well. Not because all people will believe SSM is the moral choice, but because the law doesn't ask for our approval of individual marriages. It asks two people to agree, and only two. I personally believe Newt is an immoral person, but the law allows him to commit serial adultery and marry his mistresses. That's as it should be, and I hope Newt and his current wife are happy.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Gotcha. So he not only presented as a bigot and a homophobe (which was aiiiiiight with liberals) but he is a liar and hypocrite with no principles, morals, and values as well.

OK...I can see that.

But the point wasnt really ABOUT Obama (and it seldom is). The point was about the fact that his position mirrored many if not a majority of conservatives on gay marriage and homosexuality, and for some reason...left leaning folks are real quick to toss out the whole bigot/homophobe thing....to conservatives.

The difference is, and I'm not taking sides, is that one group is blatantly homophobic and continues to be, while the other came around to reason, yes, Obama may have been a "homophobe" at some point, but at least he realized he needed to adopt a more progressive stance.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No. I disagree. I wouldn't care if my daughters were gay. I would care about the difficulties they would face from the types of right wing assholes like this.

300px-Homophobia-Discrimination-NoDiversity-03.jpg

Sorry, but our daughters are going to face terrible assholes left and right, gay or straight. Sexuality is just one more thing in the bag of insults for those sort of folks. It's not the only thing.

And dollars to donuts everyone featured in that photo is a left wing asshat.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The difference is, and I'm not taking sides, is that one group is blatantly homophobic and continues to be, while the other came around to reason, yes, Obama may have been a "homophobe" at some point, but at least he realized he needed to adopt a more progressive stance.

Lol, I love how idiotic that term is.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Riiiiiiiiight.

How many men (conservatives or liberals) are going to rush out to proudly declare to all their friends "hey guys!!! Great news!!! I just found out my son is gay!"? How many women are just super happy for that news? No...what you DO get a lot of is...'you know...we love you know matter what and we just want you to be happy'. Usually that is said with an almost smile and the tears dont come until later.

Ya know though...we could always put it to the test. A national vote...single issue, not tied to candidates or anything else. Decision made once and for all and good luck to both sides. Right? What percentage of blacks would vote for gay marriage? What percentage of hispanics? Oh...I hear the response already (because the dialogue has already been had here). "'Rights' shouldnt be subject to a vote or majority rule." Because you know better. Were it not for court intervention, there would still be 33+ states with laws either banning gay marriage or clarifying marriage as only between a man and a woman.

But...but...the POLLS...right?

So...they should put it to a vote. Right?



Wrong.

That's not the way that things work in the USA.

This will all be sorted out by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Wait and see.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Gotcha. So he not only presented as a bigot and a homophobe (which was aiiiiiight with liberals) but he is a liar and hypocrite with no principles, morals, and values as well.

OK...I can see that.

But the point wasnt really ABOUT Obama (and it seldom is). The point was about the fact that his position mirrored many if not a majority of conservatives on gay marriage and homosexuality, and for some reason...left leaning folks are real quick to toss out the whole bigot/homophobe thing....to conservatives.

I don't recall Obama suggesting that not serving gays was ok, ever. I do recall him suggesting that gay marriage was not. And if I'm not mistaken he has changed course on that. But feel free to bash away and throw in lots of hyperbole along the way.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No. I disagree. I wouldn't care if my daughters were gay. I would care about the difficulties they would face from the types of right wing assholes like this.

300px-Homophobia-Discrimination-NoDiversity-03.jpg
No one should face harassment. But its more than just what they might face from others and you know it. I bvleiev you would accept her. I highly doubt thats what you had hoped for her.

BTW...do you find it odd that Wilkinson felt the need to use an inflammatory picture that had absolutely ZERO bearing on his article to somehow attract attention to the content of his article?

(and a staged photo at that. Wow...that really IS indicative of the typical gay rights outrage!)
 
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Here's a link to a resource on California regulations in doing business. Find the correlating site that is relevant to the state you live in and go through the regulations carefully. We wouldn't want any of them to supercede your religious freedoms now, would we?

Regulations

I make my arguments based on doing the right thing by all. I don't hide behind legal definition to justify infringing on a persons personal and religious beliefs, just as I didn't hide behind them when gay people wanted the right to marry.

Being "free" in America, doesn't mean that everyone must accept everything that everyone engages in, or be forced to take part in anything they find objectionable... It means that people are free to engage in the things they want, and believe in the things they want (as long as they aren't endangering the physical safety or the lives of others) without being fear of government persecution for doing so. Forcing people of faith to participate in a ceremony that is sacrilegious to their beliefs is against everything this nation was founded upon.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Sorry, but our daughters are going to face terrible assholes left and right, gay or straight. Sexuality is just one more thing in the bag of insults for those sort of folks. It's not the only thing.

And dollars to donuts everyone featured in that photo is a left wing asshat.

And if you believe that I have some waterfront in the Mohave for you.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Wrong.

That's not the way that things work in the USA.

This will all be sorted out by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Wait and see.
You just made my point.

BTW, I have long ago said we will reach a point where the SCOTUS will decide in favor of gay marriage at some point and time. I think they have shown tremendous cowardice in refusing to take it on before now. And when it does...the sun will still come out tomorrow.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yes, now prove the irrational fear bit. This should be fun. :lamo

It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.[4]
- Multiple applications.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

How is making food taking part in anything else but making food?

Catering food for a gay wedding, is choosing to participate in and/or contribute to that wedding ceremony.

This isn't rocket science here, just common sense stuff.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

- Multiple applications.

Yes, and I asked you to prove one of them. You know, the one that gives the term the punch it has.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

And if you believe that I have some waterfront in the Mohave for you.

What's the source of the photo?

Your daughters would be best served if you woke up a bit and realized that bullies have no one political persuasion or sexuality.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You just made my point.

BTW, I have long ago said we will reach a point where the SCOTUS will decide in favor of gay marriage at some point and time. I think they have shown tremendous cowardice in refusing to take it on before now. And when it does...the sun will still come out tomorrow.

Hey, it takes time to manufacture constitutional support when there really is none.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

I make my arguments based on doing the right thing by all. I don't hide behind legal definition to justify infringing on a persons personal and religious beliefs, just as I didn't hide behind them when gay people wanted the right to marry.

Being "free" in America, doesn't mean that everyone must accept everything that everyone engages in, or be forced to take part in anything they find objectionable... It means that people are free to engage in the things they want, and believe in the things they want (as long as they aren't endangering the physical safety or the lives of others) without being fear of government persecution for doing so. Forcing people of faith to participate in a ceremony that is sacrilegious to their beliefs is against everything this nation was founded upon.

That's a copout. I'm guessing there's an extraordinarily small number of people who like following stringent business regulations, but the upsides of owning your own business may outweigh the red tape and day-to-day irritations. If you don't like the regulations, your religious faith isn't enough to overturn them. We all have to deal with them. But if this is all too much for you then clearly business isn't the place for you. Or as I suggested to someone else, you should perhaps opt to go to confessional more frequently if you feel that doing business with gays is sinful.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Catering food for a gay wedding, is choosing to participate in and/or contribute to that wedding ceremony.

This isn't rocket science here, just common sense stuff.

That's your opinion. When I paint someone's portrait I don't think that I'm condoning, approving of or taking part in their life. To me that constitutes the highest order of arrogance.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yes, and I asked you to prove one of them. You know, the one that gives the term the punch it has.

I would go as far as to call it irrational fear, irrational fear that homosexuals will somehow destroy this "christian country" undermine marriage, etc, etc.. Not hard.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

That's your opinion. When I paint someone's portrait I don't think that I'm condoning, approving of or taking part in their life. To me that constitutes the highest order of arrogance.

That wouldn't be analogous unless they asked you to gay or butch it up.
 
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