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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]
- Thread starter shrubnose
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
This is a bigoted and racists comment! Where are the moderators????????????????????????????
This is a bigoted and racists comment! Where are the moderators????????????????????????????
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
While certainly there are a few nutters who would love to do just that, they are a tiny minority and are literally dying off.
While certainly there are a few nutters who would love to do just that, they are a tiny minority and are literally dying off.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Free speech man I have every right to use someone else's property to be a racist ****head. Also nobody can ever criticize me if I say something racist because criticizing me violates my right to free speech.
Free speech man I have every right to use someone else's property to be a racist ****head. Also nobody can ever criticize me if I say something racist because criticizing me violates my right to free speech.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
They've taken the reigns of intolerance Gay groups use to fight against.
I blame public education for teaching kids BS.
They've taken the reigns of intolerance Gay groups use to fight against.
I blame public education for teaching kids BS.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
please see the definition of tolerance. it isn't my problem if you don't like it, nor is it my problem if you have been using it in the wrong way.
please see the definition of tolerance. it isn't my problem if you don't like it, nor is it my problem if you have been using it in the wrong way.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Zoning laws are exactly about preventing harm. Harm to property prices, harm to environment which in turn harms people if not taking care of.
Only where it concerns harmful effects. Tell me...what's your stance on marijuana again? Something along the lines of "no harm no foul"?
If this is true then discriminating against businesses for not providing a service can also cause harm because it would run that business out of running or even preventing it from running at all. Which means less jobs and less commerce. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. But again, the federal government has no power to regulate a private intrastate business.
What is ironic here is that you actually do have the legal right to not provide service to a business that discriminates. Or do you think that what Connecticut is doing or wanting to do illegal? IE: its called boycotting. Which is legal.
Also there is a huge difference between an intrastate business such as yours and this mom and pop pizzeria. You can be regulated due to the federal governments power to regulate interstate commerce. They do not have the power to regulate intrastate commerce...which is the kind of business this mom and pop pizzeria conducts.
Alright then...in that case how about you provide your services to the KKK? And this Pizzaria. Of course anyone that is against what this Pizzaria is doing would also have to provide their own services to them also.
Zoning laws are exactly about preventing harm. Harm to property prices, harm to environment which in turn harms people if not taking care of.
Only where it concerns harmful effects. Tell me...what's your stance on marijuana again? Something along the lines of "no harm no foul"?
If this is true then discriminating against businesses for not providing a service can also cause harm because it would run that business out of running or even preventing it from running at all. Which means less jobs and less commerce. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. But again, the federal government has no power to regulate a private intrastate business.
What is ironic here is that you actually do have the legal right to not provide service to a business that discriminates. Or do you think that what Connecticut is doing or wanting to do illegal? IE: its called boycotting. Which is legal.
Also there is a huge difference between an intrastate business such as yours and this mom and pop pizzeria. You can be regulated due to the federal governments power to regulate interstate commerce. They do not have the power to regulate intrastate commerce...which is the kind of business this mom and pop pizzeria conducts.
Alright then...in that case how about you provide your services to the KKK? And this Pizzaria. Of course anyone that is against what this Pizzaria is doing would also have to provide their own services to them also.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Weddings have been performed in places like Walmart. A pizza wedding would be a step up from that.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Not long, depending on how much coertion is exerted, I imagine. Relative quality in a product is usually something given - not forced.
Not long, depending on how much coertion is exerted, I imagine. Relative quality in a product is usually something given - not forced.
Montecresto
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
What about my post was personal to you?
What about my post was personal to you?
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Really? Not your place to judge and you don't judge at all? Then what the hell is the following.....
You've done nothing BUT judge this entire thread.
Really? Not your place to judge and you don't judge at all? Then what the hell is the following.....
You've done nothing BUT judge this entire thread.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Obviously your opinion is that being gay IS NOT an immutable characteristic. Being a skinhead, neo-nazi is assuredly not an immutable characteristic. They like to wear their blatant bigotry on their skin - and usually in a place to be seen in plain sight.
Now if a person was born with a swastika birth mark...that would be an immutable characteristic. While it's still a symbol people might find offensive, the birth mark wasn't by choice.
So in my opinion, your objections to gays is like telling blacks that they can't go the grocery store until they take off their dark skin.
Obviously your opinion is that being gay IS NOT an immutable characteristic. Being a skinhead, neo-nazi is assuredly not an immutable characteristic. They like to wear their blatant bigotry on their skin - and usually in a place to be seen in plain sight.
Now if a person was born with a swastika birth mark...that would be an immutable characteristic. While it's still a symbol people might find offensive, the birth mark wasn't by choice.
So in my opinion, your objections to gays is like telling blacks that they can't go the grocery store until they take off their dark skin.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Coertion(sic)?? Listen, if you make **** pizza I'm not going to eat at your pizzeria. And I'm going to tell my friends your pizza is ****. They and I will eat elsewhere. That's not coercion. That's called capitalism.
Similarly, if your pizzeria hates the gays, I wont eat there. I'll tell my friends too, and they wont eat there. The market speaks: discrimination against homosexuals is not a good business decision.
Coertion(sic)?? Listen, if you make **** pizza I'm not going to eat at your pizzeria. And I'm going to tell my friends your pizza is ****. They and I will eat elsewhere. That's not coercion. That's called capitalism.
Similarly, if your pizzeria hates the gays, I wont eat there. I'll tell my friends too, and they wont eat there. The market speaks: discrimination against homosexuals is not a good business decision.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
You're assuming that the kid would have a reason to be scared. Can you provide proof that even these people in the Pizzaria would harm or threaten that gay kid in that town?
You're assuming that the kid would have a reason to be scared. Can you provide proof that even these people in the Pizzaria would harm or threaten that gay kid in that town?
shrubnose
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
New York City has lots of pizzerias, I've never heard of any of them refusing to cater gay weddings. Does that surprise anyone?
New York City has lots of pizzerias, I've never heard of any of them refusing to cater gay weddings. Does that surprise anyone?
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
1) You are talking about harm to commerce - the same type of harm that discrimination causes.
And zoning laws are not about protecting the environment
Wrong. Govts have the soveriegn power to promote commerce and have *always* had that power (at least in the history of civilization). They have also had the power to prohibit behavior which inhibits commerce, which is why we have had public accommodations laws since the first days of the US, why they fed govt has the power to regulate interstate commerce, and why states have the power to regulate intrastate commerce.
And I don't want to derail this into a discussion about MJ but allowing the sale of it does not inhibit commerce. It has the opposite effect.
Regulating consumers in such a way has never been considered a legitimate exercise of govt power in this country (nor in many others) which is why the constitution does not give the govt such a power. It is a power that the people would not support, but if you want to make that case to the nation, be my guest.
I'm not sure that is true. CT has not said it would not provide a service to Indiana. They said they will not pay for non-essential travel to that state. "Traveling to Indiana" is not a service.
My business is interstate, not intrastate, but my point is that even businesses that operate at a specific location can affect interstate commerce, thereby giving the feds the power to regulate it in the areas where it does affect interstate commerce. As my example shows, discrimination by businesses that only operate within a state (such as auto mechanics, hotels, restaurants, etc) can have an inhibiting effect on interstate commerce.
I personally believe that every business that is open to the public should be required to serve the entire public. The only exceptions should be for reasons with a clear and legitimate purpose of promoting commerce. For example, disruptive behavior is a legitimate reason for refusing service because the disruptive behavior can drive business away.
At present however, the law does allow one to discriminate for some reasons but I think a business open to the public should be required to provide their normal products and services to all (with noted exceptions) including the KKK, Nazis, etc.
1) You are talking about harm to commerce - the same type of harm that discrimination causes.
And zoning laws are not about protecting the environment
Wrong. Govts have the soveriegn power to promote commerce and have *always* had that power (at least in the history of civilization). They have also had the power to prohibit behavior which inhibits commerce, which is why we have had public accommodations laws since the first days of the US, why they fed govt has the power to regulate interstate commerce, and why states have the power to regulate intrastate commerce.
And I don't want to derail this into a discussion about MJ but allowing the sale of it does not inhibit commerce. It has the opposite effect.
Regulating consumers in such a way has never been considered a legitimate exercise of govt power in this country (nor in many others) which is why the constitution does not give the govt such a power. It is a power that the people would not support, but if you want to make that case to the nation, be my guest.
I'm not sure that is true. CT has not said it would not provide a service to Indiana. They said they will not pay for non-essential travel to that state. "Traveling to Indiana" is not a service.
My business is interstate, not intrastate, but my point is that even businesses that operate at a specific location can affect interstate commerce, thereby giving the feds the power to regulate it in the areas where it does affect interstate commerce. As my example shows, discrimination by businesses that only operate within a state (such as auto mechanics, hotels, restaurants, etc) can have an inhibiting effect on interstate commerce.
I personally believe that every business that is open to the public should be required to serve the entire public. The only exceptions should be for reasons with a clear and legitimate purpose of promoting commerce. For example, disruptive behavior is a legitimate reason for refusing service because the disruptive behavior can drive business away.
At present however, the law does allow one to discriminate for some reasons but I think a business open to the public should be required to provide their normal products and services to all (with noted exceptions) including the KKK, Nazis, etc.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Tolerance does not require one to support a bigot's business.
Tolerance does not require one to support a bigot's business.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Yes he is. And I've debated against him for years. Long LONG before this whole Indiana thing ever came up.
I've said it several ways already. Just in this thread. For example: I have already stated that I would not give them my business. I'd fight for their Rights. But not give them my business. If that doesn't show that I think their wrong to then I don't know what does.....Or perhaps you just want me to say those exact words? Well...here ya go.....The business owners of that Pizzaria is wrong to not provide their services to gay weddings.
Happy?
Still doesn't change the fact that I believe that they still have a Right to not provide their services. :shrug:
Those two polls are about the same exact subject. We're discussing a completely different subject here. As I said, I support SSM. I have proved that over the years. But I also support the right of a business to discriminate due to their right to association. IE: Right to Marriage and Right to freedom of association. Two different subjects. Neither of which you will find a poll comparing the two to each other.
Yes he is. And I've debated against him for years. Long LONG before this whole Indiana thing ever came up.
I've said it several ways already. Just in this thread. For example: I have already stated that I would not give them my business. I'd fight for their Rights. But not give them my business. If that doesn't show that I think their wrong to then I don't know what does.....Or perhaps you just want me to say those exact words? Well...here ya go.....The business owners of that Pizzaria is wrong to not provide their services to gay weddings.
Happy?
Still doesn't change the fact that I believe that they still have a Right to not provide their services. :shrug:
Those two polls are about the same exact subject. We're discussing a completely different subject here. As I said, I support SSM. I have proved that over the years. But I also support the right of a business to discriminate due to their right to association. IE: Right to Marriage and Right to freedom of association. Two different subjects. Neither of which you will find a poll comparing the two to each other.
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
You asked for it, and you got it.
Still whining, eh?
You asked for it, and you got it.
Still whining, eh?
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed
Never said otherwise. But for the people involved, religion is a factor. Whether you want to admit it or not religion does have value. Maybe not to you. But it does to others.
Never said otherwise. But for the people involved, religion is a factor. Whether you want to admit it or not religion does have value. Maybe not to you. But it does to others.