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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

"Religious freedom" doesn't include the ability to discriminate. How far will we go with the idea of religious freedom?

Human rights are in fact about exclusion.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

"Religious freedom" doesn't include the ability to discriminate. How far will we go with the idea of religious freedom?

Again, no matter how many times you say it, refusing to cater a gay wedding because it is against your religious beliefs, is not discriminating against gay people.

Religious person refusing to serve a homosexual = Gay Discrimination
Religious person refusing to service a gay wedding = Refusing to participate in a sacrilegious event.

1 is people, 1 is an event.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Again, no matter how many times you say it, refusing to cater a gay wedding because it is against your religious beliefs, is not discriminating against gay people.

Refusing to serve a homosexual = Gay Discrimination
Refusing to service a gay wedding = Refusing to participate in an event.

It is discrimination, no matter how many times you say it isn't.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Sorry, but it isn't.

If you're refusing to cater to two homosexual individuals who are getting married, that's discrimination. Jesus.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You only "agree" because you are forced to agree. We've seen that in countries like, oh say, North Korea

So the US is now North Korea? That's hilarious!
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

so the us is now north korea? That's hilarious!
Obama is a socialist muslim who wants to turn america into north korea, come on now.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Obama is a socialist muslim who wants to turn america into north korea, come on now.

That's not true! He's allied with the Lizard people and the new black panther party against white people! #RaceWar2015
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

If you're refusing to cater to two homosexual individuals who are getting married, that's discrimination. Jesus.

You are again wrong.. It's not refusing to cater to two homosexual individuals,.. It's refusing to take part in their marriage ceremony, which violates the tenets of their religion.

Only in the bass-akwards world of a the American leftist, does the right to the wedding caterer of your choice (a right that doesn't even exist) supercede the constitutional right to freedom of religion.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You are again wrong.. It's not refusing to cater to two homosexual individuals,.. It's refusing to take part in their marriage ceremony, which violates the tenets of their religion.

Only in the bass-akwards world of a the American leftist, does the right to the wedding caterer of your choice (a right that doesn't even exist) supercede the constitutional right to freedom of religion.

Keep talking about freedom of religion, I don't think you know what it means.
It is discrimination, you're refusing catering to two homosexual individuals getting married, using religion as an excuse is ridiculous.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

You just don't seem to get it. In all 3 of those example, those businesses are still participating in a gay wedding. It's as though you think that business owners who object to gay marriage on religious ground, just need plausible deniability, and then participating is fine and dandy. Beliefs are about consciousness, not appearances... So they either participate, or they don't... There is no in between.

Oh, I get it alright. There are some folks out there within the business community who believe they have every right not to sell a product or service to someone who aren't of the same religious faith or whose conduct and/or behavior goes contrary to said beliefs. And as such, they believe it is their "religious right" not to participate in such business activity/transactions. Furthermore, such business owners firmly believe that by making such a sale, they are contribution to such inappropriate social or moral behavior.

I get it just fine.

All I'm saying is there are alternatives to this issue: 1) make a distinction in your business marketing, written (posted) policies or signage that you are a faith-based business, or 2) form your business as a for-profit religious entity following the same guidelines as subparagraph 1 above. In this way, patrons know exactly the type of business activity you conduct AND who your target market would possibly exclude.

Frankly, I think using "religious liberty (freedom)" as an excuse not to provide a service or sell a product merely masks bigotry because no one is forcing the business owner to exercise his religious beliefs (i.e., pray or perform religious rituals) in any way that goes contrary to their religious convictions. This pizza parlor certainly wasn't forced to do it. The owner merely made the statement that he wouldn't cater a gay wedding and look at all the publicity he/she has received. This without ever catering to a gay wedding for as long as the business existed.

I'm simply of the opinion that unless you make it clear that your business markets to a limited clientele your doors are open to everyone.

Let's face it... The only ones who are being forced to sacrifice, are the people who object to gay marriage on religious grounds. Religious freedom is a right afforded Americans in the constitution, while neither having food, a photographer and a cake at your wedding, nor demanding who provides those things, is not.

But that religious right was meant to extend only to one's person religious freedom, not from a business perspective. In other words, what faith you decided to practice, what God you decided to worship and how you choose to worship. That's what the Constitution enshrines, not how your religious beliefs constrain you from making a profit.
 
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Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

there should be a private room for you guys to rant about nambla

Yeah, 'cause only squares complain about pedophiles, am I right!?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Keep talking about freedom of religion, I don't think you know what it means.
It is discrimination, you're refusing catering to two homosexual individuals getting married, using religion as an excuse is ridiculous.

They are not refusing to cater to an individual, but to a particular ceremony that violates their religious beliefs.

If they refuse to cater a birthday party for someone who is gay, then they are discriminating against the individual, since to my knowledge birthday parties do not violate the religious tenets of Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

Stop making bogus claims just to prop up your support for discriminating against people of faith.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

They are not refusing to cater to an individual, but to a particular ceremony that violates their religious beliefs.

If they refuse to cater a birthday party for someone who is gay, then they are discriminating against the individual, since to my knowledge birthday parties do not violate the religious tenets of Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

Stop making bogus claims just to prop up your support for discriminating against people of faith.

A ceremony based around two individuals. :roll:
Keep calling it discrimination against the religious, I don't think you know what it actually is.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Really? Care to elaborate?

Sure. Rights are essentially about control over your own life. Part of that is encompassed in the ability to exclude and include certain people and things in your life. If you didn't have the ability to exclude yourself from associations, contracts or sexual interactions for example then it would be impossible to be in control over your own life.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Sure. Rights are essentially about control over your own life. Part of that is encompassed in the ability to exclude and include certain people and things in your life. If you didn't have the ability to exclude yourself from associations, contracts or sexual interactions for example then it would be impossible to be in control over your own life.

Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, whatever our nationality, place of residence, sex, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, language, or any other status. We are all equally entitled to our human rights without discrimination. These rights are all interrelated, interdependent and indivisible.
The comparison has nothing to do with bringing pizza to a gay wedding.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The comparison has nothing to do with bringing pizza to a gay wedding.

Where did you get that quote? Anyway, making and delivering a pizza requires the use of someones property, time, labor and service. Those are things people have the right to choose how they will use and who get them.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Where did you get that quote? Anyway, making and delivering a pizza requires the use of someones property, time, labor and service. Those are things people have the right to choose how they will use and who get them.

Let me google that for you
They can deny service, but they shouldn't be able to deny service based on their own intolerance.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

A ceremony based around two individuals.

But a ceremony none the less... one in which they do not want to participate in based on their religious beliefs.

If they refuse to cater to any non-sacrilegious event or function involving homosexuals, then you'd have a case for discrimination.

Clearly, anyone who doesn't respect a persons religious beliefs, and chooses to take legal action against them because they refuse to violate those beliefs, is the definition of "intolerant". Not to mention petty, spiteful and juvenile.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

But a ceremony none the less... one in which they do not want to participate in based on their religious beliefs.

If they refuse to cater to any non-sacrilegious event or function involving homosexuals, then you'd have a case for discrimination.

Clearly, anyone who doesn't respect a persons religious beliefs, and chooses to take legal action against them because they refuse to violate those beliefs, is the definition of "intolerant". Not to mention petty, spiteful and juvenile.

Their religious beliefs are intolerant then, sorry. Much like those in the south who used religion to justify slavery, would it be intolerant to go against them, after all, religious freedom! I refuse to respect a belief that looks down on the marriage of others, sorry.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Their religious beliefs are intolerant then, sorry. Much like those in the south who used religion to justify slavery, would it be intolerant to go against them, after all, religious freedom! I refuse to respect a belief that looks down on the marriage of others, sorry.

Even though it was fairly obvious that you were a religious bigot, I still appreciate you taking the time to confirm it for me.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Even though it was fairly obvious that you were a religious bigot, I still appreciate you taking the time to confirm it for me.

Hey, I don't respect others who look down upon a marriage between two lovers, say what you want.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Ok.

So why should their reasons to deny you service be restricted?

Denying service to an illegal event or such is justified, wait, deny me service? Can you elaborate on this?
 
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