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Thread: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

  1. #251
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Do they sell fresh organic Muslim or do they use frozen?
    Slurpees is about the extent of it, I think.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    How did this place close when they just got 50k from Gofundme?

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yes, they do have those rights. There are anti discrimination ordinances, "protected class," the 14th amendment, roper v evans

    This is never going to change, so get over it. The only question is how you can justify lgbt discrimination, while religion, gender, veterans, national origin etc are all immune.
    The whole "protected class" thing has to do with Affirmative Action laws. Laws are not Rights and they do not confer any Rights. And the 14th Amendment talks about equal protection under the law. It does not state or even imply that private businesses or even private individuals are not able to discriminate. If it did then you would not have the Right to boycott any business that held a view opposite of yours. You would HAVE to give them your money.
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  4. #254
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    How did this place close when they just got 50k from Gofundme?
    They closed due to threats made against them. Not due to money troubles.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  5. #255
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually RFRA laws have been in effect for years in many states and even the federal level. This is not a new thing.
    I'm not sure how that addresses the point we were discussing (ie has bigotry been reduced to such a low level that it can't have a significant impact on commerce)

    Read the part about zoning. You'll note that the main theme is about safety.
    The fact remains the states, including OK, have the power to zone for reasons other than safety which is why "the main theme" is safety but not "the only theme"

    I'm surprised that you are arguing that safety is the only reason a state can regulate commerce when there are so many examples (ex business hours, minimum wage, easement, signage, recordkeeping, etc) that show that this is not true.

    So SCOTUS has never been wrong? They're always right in whether something is constitutional or not? Sorry, I doubt you believe that. As such its quite logical to argue that their decision can be or is unconstitutional.
    Right v wrong is a matter of opinion; constitutional v unconstitutional is a matter of law.

    That actually has to do with planning. Not zoning. And I believe those laws to be wrong also. Promoting commerce in this way is essentially demanding that you sell your property to meet X requirement size or else is against our property rights.
    It's zoning. It's a zoning law. And you're belief in wrong is opinion. The local govts power to make such zoning laws is a legal matter, not a matter of opinion.

    You are free to believe that govt should only protect people's rights and safety but our govt was formed and given additional powers including the power to regulate commerce

    I won't argue that they do have a legitimate interest in promoting commerce. However they do not have enough of a valid interest to deny peoples Rights.
    Whether or not is it valid *enough* is something that is determined through the democratic political process, which is exactly what the framers intended.


    But what I am saying is that by this type of "promoting commerce" it is also having the effect of getting rid of commerce. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
    The govt has the power to regulate commerce in order to promote commerce. Having a power does not require the govt to exercise it. It is for the people to decide (by participating in the political process) when and how that power is to be exercised . Therefore, the fact that the govt doesn't always exercise a power does not mean that power is illegitimate or unconstitutional.

    Except we both know that none of those examples made those exceptions based on any law. They based it on feelings.
    No, we do not *both* know that.

    Argumentum ad populum. The popularity of a law does not legitimize a law. And I've explained how that is no longer true in today's society and population amount.
    I'm not arguing that "it's right because it's popular". You argued that such laws are not needed because such bigotry is so uncommon and unsupported. I'm not saying "the law is right because the people in those states supported it". I'm pointing out that the support for such laws prove that this bigotry is not uncommon.

    Democracy is nothing more than mob rule. I much prefer our republic type system which is limited by peoples Rights. Even our founders were against democracy.
    The founders opposed "pure" democracy. They obviously supported representative democracy because they created a system which relies on it.

    The fact remains that the constitution gives the govt the power to regulate business in order to promote commerce, which is a legitimate interest of govt. Since history has shown how discrimination can inhibit commerce, govt has the power to prohibit discrimination.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Neither is the Christian world.
    No one claimed the Christian world was obsessed with it. However, there is very little doubt that there is a sizeable Christian population in the US that is obsessed with regulating morality and whitewashing their hatred of homosexuals. To disagree with that is to go against: Elections run solely on the issue of restricting gay marriage, governors pandering to the evangelical right, legislative bodies creating laws to restrict homosexual couples etc.

    There are always exceptions both within Islam and Christianity. There are, for example, entire Muslim nations which have codified the refusal to accept the validity of SSM or homosexuality, and the punishments are rather severe. I see no such correlative example within Christian or generally secular nations.
    Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Act, 2014 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The legislative proposal would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda domestically, and further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Eh it's probably easy to support discrimination when you've probably never really had to deal with it. Must be nice!
    This is essentially what I've had to explain to conservatives multiple times now. As I already said in an earlier post, the problem isn't about religious freedom (except insofar as religious freedom is cited as a pretext for behaving like complete assholes towards other people), but about creating a de facto second class. By barring the minority from patronizing as many businesses as the majority has access to(which includes schools and financial institutions, btw, not just bakeries and wedding photographers as this stream of stories would have us believe), you are creating a disadvantaged class. Of course the majority has no problem trolling everybody by saying "just go to another business" if discriminated against, because the majority is fully aware that as a majority they can in no way be meaningfully threatened by a minority.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Well, considering all of the transgendered weddings in Iran, the recent gay weddings in Malaysia, and the gay wedding that took place during the OWS protest, one can only assume that "Muslim" food was had and they employed at least 1 "Muslim restaurant". Don't believe me? Well,



    The Muslim world isn't as obsessed with homosexuality as some people may think.
    What makes you think those people in that picture were Muslim?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    lol the same iran where "we do not have homosexuals like in your country" and gay people are forced into sex changes and if they refuse, are sometimes executed? I mean i even remember a couple minors were hung.
    Pandering to the media sources doesn't change reality. The Iranian regime is pretty accepting of transgender issues. As a matter of fact, Iran is second only to Thailand when it comes to gender change operations. Ironically, they believe it to be a cure for homosexual tendencies.

    Or how about saudi arabia, where it's still a death penalty? Just look at the abhorrent laws on homosexuality in the muslim world
    You want to go through examples of some countries being too radical in their hatred for homosexuality?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The whole "protected class" thing has to do with Affirmative Action laws. Laws are not Rights and they do not confer any Rights. And the 14th Amendment talks about equal protection under the law. It does not state or even imply that private businesses or even private individuals are not able to discriminate. If it did then you would not have the Right to boycott any business that held a view opposite of yours. You would HAVE to give them your money.
    Equal protection applies to the laws themselves. For these other groups to be "protected class," so does lgbt or else there's no equal protection. No actually, protected class is what prevents employment and housing discrimination. Yes, those are rights. If violated, the victim can sue. Same with anti discrimination laws in various states and cities

    I know this must be heartbreaking to you that businesses that get tax breaks and incentives and public maintenance can't discriminate

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