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Thread: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

  1. #221
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    An Indiana pizzeria remained closed on Wednesday, embroiled in a national debate after its owners said that they would not cater gay marriages due to their religious beliefs.

    Read the article here: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    I don't claim to be an expert on this, but how many gay weddings are followed up by pizza parties?

    My guess is that these people are declining to serve people who would never be their customers.
    Shrug. And somewhere a pizza place is still in business because its owner doesn't publicly announce he's an objectively terrible human being.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    well name one thing of value religion contributes in the 21st century

    and i'm talking the bronze age book of fables known as the bible - what these small town yokels cling to - not pantheism, deism, jainism or hell, even nihilism might have more utility
    I can't believe I should have to give the equivalent of the "not all Muslims are terrorists" speech. Look at a map of where the most states that oppose ssm are clustered and you'll see it's highly regional. I know many religious people and most of them don't oppose gay people in the slightest, and in fact do a lot of aide and charity work. Often they make me feel like an objectively terrible human by comparison. And the few religious people I know who do oppose gays are originally from that cluster I just mentioned. It's easy to forget in these topics that the majority of Liberals/Democrats are in fact religious. The ongoing culture war is defined by culture and region. Religion is only one part of it.

  3. #223
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    IIRC, the whole issue began because the owner tweeted a message that he would not cater a SSM
    Huh. How about that. So nothing has happened. I wonder if Muslim restaurant would cater a SSM.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    FWIW, it's not what people 'believe' that is a problem - it's what they do. If the owners had said they're personally against SSM but would, of course, cater to anyone who is civil, pays the bills, etc. then I can't imagine they have a problem. I doubt if the owners "approve" of atheists, agnostics, or those 'in name only' Christians, but I bet they serve them without hesitation and would even cater a wedding for a heterosexual couple without inquiring about their state of salvation at that moment in time.
    tol∑er∑ance
    /ˈtšl(ə)rəns/
    noun
    noun: tolerance

    1. the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with

    please see the bolded part. you evidently don't know the definition of tolerance either.
    you don't get to pick and choose which part of the word you like.
    you don't get to re-write the definition of a word to justify your argument.

    what does their spiritual life matter? sounds like a strawman to me.

    the fact is people that say they are tolerant really aren't but it makes a good sound bite.

  5. #225
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The fact that an entire state (actually several states) just passed such laws showed that isn't true.
    Actually RFRA laws have been in effect for years in many states and even the federal level. This is not a new thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it's not. Arguing about what I don't *want* does not make it an environmental issue and as far as dangers substances being emitted, if there are laws that prohibit such emissions (which would be environmental laws) then there would be no such safety objection to living next door to such a facility. The reason for such zoning laws is to protect land values which is commerce, not safety.
    [url=http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1629/F-810web.pdf]Why Planning and Zoning?[/quote]

    Read the part about zoning. You'll note that the main theme is about safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    SCOTUS was given the power to make such decisions by the constitution itself, so it is illogical to argue that their decision is unconstitutional. You are free to believe that the constitution must be interpreted in a certain way, but the constitution itself does not require original intent to play such an important and overriding role.
    So SCOTUS has never been wrong? They're always right in whether something is constitutional or not? Sorry, I doubt you believe that. As such its quite logical to argue that their decision can be or is unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Tell me the "safety" concern with zoning laws that require homes to be on a plot of land of a minimum size (around me it's 1/4 acre) or the requirement to provide easements.
    That actually has to do with planning. Not zoning. And I believe those laws to be wrong also. Promoting commerce in this way is essentially demanding that you sell your property to meet X requirement size or else is against our property rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't have a no harm no foul stance on MJ nor do I believe that "no harm" is the only consideration (which should be clear by now). You're looking for a contradiction that doesn't exist. I have long held, and posted, that the govts power is not limited to protecting rights and people from harm. I believe that govts in general (and ours in particular, as enshrined in our constitution) have an legitimate interest in promoting commerce
    I won't argue that they do have a legitimate interest in promoting commerce. However they do not have enough of a valid interest to deny peoples Rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, regulating (to promote commerce) consumers is not the same as regulating businesses...........
    But what I am saying is that by this type of "promoting commerce" it is also having the effect of getting rid of commerce. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Businesses that make decisions based on the laws of a state is a legitimate exception as I explained earlier....
    Except we both know that none of those examples made those exceptions based on any law. They based it on feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The popularity of such laws prove you wrong and I've explained....
    Argumentum ad populum. The popularity of a law does not legitimize a law. And I've explained how that is no longer true in today's society and population amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It's democracy
    Democracy is nothing more than mob rule. I much prefer our republic type system which is limited by peoples Rights. Even our founders were against democracy. There were no referendums in our Founders day. Indeed The People didn't even vote for who was President back then. The only thing that was voted for back then were State legislatures. The People didn't even get to vote who was sent to the Senate. Such has changed in today's society due to people not following the Constitution. And as such we see our Rights more restricted today than was restricted back then. With the exception of womens rights and slavery/jim crow we were far more free back then. People could own as much land as they wanted (hell..if a person had enough money they could own a whole town) or sell as much of it as they wanted. People could hunt as much as they wanted for food. People could carry guns in plain sight or concealed...all without having to get a permit or background check. And many many many MANY other things. And no, I'm not saying that life was better or perfect back then. But as far as Rights go, we had more freedom back then than we do now. Ironic considering slavery and all.
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  6. #226
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    I believe i already accused them of lying on that, just like their attention whoring by going out of their way to bash gay weddings. I don't see anything of value in their antics.

    christian persecution complex depends on making oneself the victim. Easiest way to do that is claim to "love the sinner, hate the sin," or claim to serve the non existent gay couples and just stop short at supporting the wedding. Reality is they hate sinner, or would not have opened their fat mouths to begin with. There's literally no purpose to what they did, other than to be pricks
    You claiming that they are lying =/= that they are lying.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Huh. How about that. So nothing has happened. I wonder if Muslim restaurant would cater a SSM.
    What food does a "Muslim" restaurant sell?
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm pretty sure I gave worldwide examples to back up my statement. Hell, I'm convinced I even MENTIONED the East Coast as part of my post. If you want to look at some of the terrible activities of some Christians to make your point, go for it. Just don't pretend that religion doesn't have any value today. That's patently false even to someone who has a long history of taking a whip to fundies.
    Yeah, religion really isn't the problem, or at least it need not be. Most of the best people I know are Christians, and there is no requirement for Christians to be bigots. A charity I work for was founded by a very religious person. Anyone is welcome, black, white, gay, straight, Christian, Muslim, etc. Anyone who doesn't buy into that doesn't stay there as a resident or work there. So in the newspeak era, he's an anti-bigot bigot, and a very religious person, who's spent more than two decades taking people off the street, getting them clean and sober, and working frequent 60-70 hour weeks teaching them how to live a productive life.

  9. #229
    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    What food does a "Muslim" restaurant sell?


    Halal


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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    How would they know a customer was gay or lesbian? Should they be wearing rainbow pins or pink stars? I'll bet the pizza place has never encountered a bunch of Bears "
    Don't know if they have or not. But its pretty easy to see two guys or gals kissing each other. And who knows, for all we know they might even have some regular customers that they know is gay.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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