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Thread: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

  1. #1781
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    They were elected. If you don't like that, maybe you should examine exactly how you would select leaders.
    Yes, they were elected, however that is irrelevant to the reaction of folks.

    I don't view MSNBC as a credible source for much of anything except liberal opinion.
    And yet there they are, reporting on the bill before it was made into law, which goes against your narrative about the issue coming into question because of some pizza joint.

    It did? Not before the reporter did her schtick.
    Utter nonsense. The story was posted on May 31st, people had been calling on Pence to veto the bill since AT LEAST May 25th.

    Source for dates: RFRA: Michiana business wouldn't cater a gay wedding - ABC57 News - See the Difference Michiana

    And you maintain that the fix to the law eliminated discrimination?
    Nope, I maintain that it ensured gays would not be discriminated against while people hide behind their religious beliefs to do so.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    So you agree then that not following EPA codes or filing 1099's by Feb 2 is acceptable because they go against my personal beliefs? You agree I shouldn't be legally compelled to do them?

    *bump*
    Absurd strawman. We're not talking about EPA codes or IRS filings. We're talking about a First Amendment right stacked up against a law made to ensure that black folks would be able to get service. That condition no longer exists, thus there is no longer need for these laws that restrict the constitutional right.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The response is "None of your post matters"

    The constitution gives the govt the power to regulate commerce and if chooses to exercise that power, it is constitutional for it to do so. Whether or not it chooses to exercise that power is up to the people. In the case of banning discrimination against LGBT's, the people of a number of states, cities, and counties have chosen to ban it.
    No it doesn't, it grants the government power to regulate only INTERSTATE commerce.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Absurd strawman. We're not talking about EPA codes or IRS filings. We're talking about a First Amendment right stacked up against a law made to ensure that black folks would be able to get service. That condition no longer exists, thus there is no longer need for these laws that restrict the constitutional right.
    It has already been found in multiple rulings that refusal to accommodate is not justified by a reliance on "free speech" in relation to religion. Judge Spencer found this in CO 2 years ago. A justification for discrimination cannot be based upon an idea that widespread discrimination is not in vogue. Your arguments are just nutty nonsense .
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No it doesn't, it grants the government power to regulate only INTERSTATE commerce.
    The misunderstanding of public accommodation law is the basis of the confusion in your arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    The legalization of gay marriage gave homosexual people the right to marry each other over the objections of both the religious, and non-religious, who believe that marriage should remain as it has throughout human history, as the joining of one man, to one woman.
    The objection of any group is really irrelevant when it comes to equal rights and protections. That mostly if not only fundamentalist Christians are objecting is also very telling but really irrelevant also. Regardless of what they view marriage to be, they still can not claim a monopoly to it.
    History has also no relevancy, since it can also be claimed that slavery has been legal through most of human history and ending it was a welcomed change even over the objections of many.

    Having that right to marry, should not be a licence to force the participation of those who in doing so, would violate the tenets of their religion.
    No one is forcing anyone into anything. People choose to go into business of their own free will. They can also choose what type of business it will be and most importantly WHO they will serve. If they freely choose to open their business to the public they take on the obligation to SERVE THE PUBLIC. It is actually that simple.

    In other words, the obtaining of a right by one group, shouldn't result in the sacrificing of a right by another group.
    And it is not.

    A gay couple having a formal ceremony with food, a photographer, a cake, music, etc... is a 100% optional activity and totally unnecessary to exercise their right to become a legally married gay couple.
    How is that relevant to anything. Back in the days of Christ there were no wedding planers or caterers everyone organized their own wedding.
    The one that exist to day exist because their respective owners decided that that is the type of business they want to open and open it to the public.

    How can anyone justify that a person be legally compelled to defy their religious beliefs and participate in an event/ceremony that has no effect what so ever on the rights of gay people to wed?
    Sure it has an effect, discrimination. No one would ask them to plan, cater, etc. a gay wedding if their business was named 'Eternal Bonds Fundamental Christian Weddings' but by choosing to cater to the public they do take on the obligation to serve the public.

    It's clear that choosing not to cater to a gay wedding based on religious grounds, is not discrimination against gay people
    No the exact opposite is clear, that not only some so called Christians are bigots, but hypocrites too.
    Picking and choosing which sinner to accommodate is anything but what Christianity is about.

    but discrimination against a ceremony that has been deemed sacrilegious for thousands of years.
    And anyone who holds such depply bigoted and hypocritical views has the legal means to not get involved. The price is not having a business that is open to the public.

    Laws have been passed so that nobodys religious rights can infringe on a homosexual's right to engage in a same-sex marriage
    And that is a good thing. Equal rights are the bedrock of liberty and our nation.

    so why shouldn't there be laws passed that assure that a homosexuals rights to wed, doesn't infringe on anyones religious rights and beliefs?
    Because it does not.
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    ...these people have no responsibility for their own actions. [like third world dregs]

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, police, medical and fire services are controlled by a whole different set of laws and standards and you should know this.
    Are you saying that they are all atheists and have no religion, or that their religious convictions do not matter because you may need them some day?
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    ...these people have no responsibility for their own actions. [like third world dregs]

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Rights trump law. Our Right to Freedom of Association trumps anti-discrimination laws. And the funny thing about that....religion doesn't even have to be a factor in the least for it to apply.

    However I am wondering how you got what you said here from what you are responding to. Which was of a poster attempting to deny that something is religious just because it wasn't always a part of that religions doctrine. He doesn't seem to realize that not everything religious has always been a part of that religions doctrine. This applies to MANY things and not just cakes. Ex: Christmas.
    This entire discussion is entirely on the question, "should people of faith gain exceptions to laws that apply to everyone else if it violates a deeply held religious belief"? (At least the intelligent discussions)

    If the answer is no then we have no rights. If the answer is yes, then we have anarchy. And if the answer is sometimes, then we need some sort of test. Rights can trump laws, but rights don't always trump laws. Free speech doesn't legalize libel.

    So someone can say that their religion is anything they want. But that doesn't give them the right to exercise that religion.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The response is "None of your post matters"

    The constitution gives the govt the power to regulate commerce and if chooses to exercise that power, it is constitutional for it to do so. Whether or not it chooses to exercise that power is up to the people. In the case of banning discrimination against LGBT's, the people of a number of states, cities, and counties have chosen to ban it.
    Actually, what your post says is "I refuse to give my opinion because it might incriminate me"

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    "The principle that government may not enact laws that suppress religious belief or practice is so well understood that few violations are recorded in our opinions." That is how the Supreme Court began its opinion in Church of the Lukumi Babablu Aye v. City of Hiahleah.

    It should be obvious that any right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights may trump a law that restricts that right too far. Laws that discriminate against certain religions will violate the right to free exercise, for example, just as the city ordinances in Lukumi Babalu did.
    Any beliefs or practices?

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