Page 178 of 214 FirstFirst ... 78128168176177178179180188 ... LastLast
Results 1,771 to 1,780 of 2133

Thread: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

  1. #1771
    Battle Ready
    Grim17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southwestern U.S.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    23,396
    Blog Entries
    20

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    I posted this on another thread and nobody disputed it:

    The legalization of gay marriage gave homosexual people the right to marry each other over the objections of both the religious, and non-religious, who believe that marriage should remain as it has throughout human history, as the joining of one man, to one woman. Having that right to marry, should not be a licence to force the participation of those who in doing so, would violate the tenets of their religion. In other words, the obtaining of a right by one group, shouldn't result in the sacrificing of a right by another group.

    But there's more...

    A gay couple having a formal ceremony with food, a photographer, a cake, music, etc... is a 100% optional activity and totally unnecessary to exercise their right to become a legally married gay couple. How can anyone justify that a person be legally compelled to defy their religious beliefs and participate in an event/ceremony that has no effect what so ever on the rights of gay people to wed?

    It's clear that choosing not to cater to a gay wedding based on religious grounds, is not discrimination against gay people, but discrimination against a ceremony that has been deemed sacrilegious for thousands of years. Laws have been passed so that nobodys religious rights can infringe on a homosexual's right to engage in a same-sex marriage, so why shouldn't there be laws passed that assure that a homosexuals rights to wed, doesn't infringe on anyones religious rights and beliefs?

    Isn't that not only fair, but the way it should be?

  2. #1772
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 07:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    So religion trumps law?
    According to the First Amendment it does. The Law has to reflect freedom of religion.

  3. #1773
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    01-13-17 @ 09:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,466

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    I posted this on another thread and nobody disputed it:

    The legalization of gay marriage gave homosexual people the right to marry each other over the objections of both the religious, and non-religious, who believe that marriage should remain as it has throughout human history, as the joining of one man, to one woman. Having that right to marry, should not be a licence to force the participation of those who in doing so, would violate the tenets of their religion. In other words, the obtaining of a right by one group, shouldn't result in the sacrificing of a right by another group.

    But there's more...

    A gay couple having a formal ceremony with food, a photographer, a cake, music, etc... is a 100% optional activity and totally unnecessary to exercise their right to become a legally married gay couple. How can anyone justify that a person be legally compelled to defy their religious beliefs and participate in an event/ceremony that has no effect what so ever on the rights of gay people to wed?

    It's clear that choosing not to cater to a gay wedding based on religious grounds, is not discrimination against gay people, but discrimination against a ceremony that has been deemed sacrilegious for thousands of years. Laws have been passed so that nobodys religious rights can infringe on a homosexual's right to engage in a same-sex marriage, so why shouldn't there be laws passed that assure that a homosexuals rights to wed, doesn't infringe on anyones religious rights and beliefs?

    Isn't that not only fair, but the way it should be?
    That's a fantastic point Grim17!
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #1774
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,270

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    So religion trumps law?
    "The principle that government may not enact laws that suppress religious belief or practice is so well understood that few violations are recorded in our opinions." That is how the Supreme Court began its opinion in Church of the Lukumi Babablu Aye v. City of Hiahleah.

    It should be obvious that any right guaranteed in the Bill of Rights may trump a law that restricts that right too far. Laws that discriminate against certain religions will violate the right to free exercise, for example, just as the city ordinances in Lukumi Babalu did.

  5. #1775
    Randian PUA
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    58,787

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Who's was the bus analogy to begin with? Yours or mine?
    Yes, I was the first to mention privately owned buses, and i proved they exist.

    You introduced the claim that they're only in a small # of cities, so thats your burden to prove.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #1776
    Randian PUA
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    58,787

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    I posted this on another thread and nobody disputed it:

    The legalization of gay marriage gave homosexual people the right to marry each other over the objections of both the religious, and non-religious, who believe that marriage should remain as it has throughout human history, as the joining of one man, to one woman. Having that right to marry, should not be a licence to force the participation of those who in doing so, would violate the tenets of their religion. In other words, the obtaining of a right by one group, shouldn't result in the sacrificing of a right by another group.

    But there's more...

    A gay couple having a formal ceremony with food, a photographer, a cake, music, etc... is a 100% optional activity and totally unnecessary to exercise their right to become a legally married gay couple. How can anyone justify that a person be legally compelled to defy their religious beliefs and participate in an event/ceremony that has no effect what so ever on the rights of gay people to wed?

    It's clear that choosing not to cater to a gay wedding based on religious grounds, is not discrimination against gay people, but discrimination against a ceremony that has been deemed sacrilegious for thousands of years. Laws have been passed so that nobodys religious rights can infringe on a homosexual's right to engage in a same-sex marriage, so why shouldn't there be laws passed that assure that a homosexuals rights to wed, doesn't infringe on anyones religious rights and beliefs?

    Isn't that not only fair, but the way it should be?
    The response is "None of your post matters"

    The constitution gives the govt the power to regulate commerce and if chooses to exercise that power, it is constitutional for it to do so. Whether or not it chooses to exercise that power is up to the people. In the case of banning discrimination against LGBT's, the people of a number of states, cities, and counties have chosen to ban it.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #1777
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,590

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    The law didn't receive criticism that I know of prior to passage.
    That would be relevant if simply passing a law meant much. Once it became obvious that it would be passed (40-10, thanks to Republicans) people shifted on Pence vetoing the bill.

    Governor under pressure to veto controversial religious freedom bill | MSNBC

    And yet the attention paid was precisely because a reporter went out specifically looking for a business that might have reservations and highlighting that business even though no gay couple had approached that business for a service. Welcome to Politics 102.
    Absurd at best and refuted by the actual sequence of events. The law itself merited attention. The business with reservations was a sideshow.

    I would agree, but I was referring to a contrived event - not what you're claiming.

    Again, you're answering something I didn't claim. I don't care whether the law was changed or not. I don't think there was anything wrong with the law as it was originally written. If the state of Indiana feels it will suffer harm, whether through lost business or by subjecting some of it's citizens to possible discrimination, then they can and perhaps should've changed the law. I simply maintain that the reporter asked a speculative question of no substance intentionally to create a false narrative which would inflame some people. This is not new, but it's not ethical either. There have been a lot of fabricated stories of late.
    Good grief, you've been arguing that people twisted this and if it wasn't for some reporter then NOTHING would have happened. That is patently absurd given the fact that the law itself ALLOWED for discrimination and everyone from corporations to private citizens noticed from the beginning. Hell, before Pence even signed the bill into law, people were already calling the law into question. Claiming the reporter created a false narrative about a law that the people who put it into law ADMITTED allowed for discrimination (by changing it) just makes you look dishonest at this point. Do you have anything but your sour grapes to add?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #1778
    Professor

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last Seen
    12-04-16 @ 12:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,828

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    So religion trumps law?
    The free exercise of religion IS the law

  9. #1779
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,786

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That would be relevant if simply passing a law meant much. Once it became obvious that it would be passed (40-10, thanks to Republicans) people shifted on Pence vetoing the bill.
    They were elected. If you don't like that, maybe you should examine exactly how you would select leaders.

    I don't view MSNBC as a credible source for much of anything except liberal opinion.



    Absurd at best and refuted by the actual sequence of events. The law itself merited attention. The business with reservations was a sideshow.
    It did? Not before the reporter did her schtick.



    Good grief, you've been arguing that people twisted this and if it wasn't for some reporter then NOTHING would have happened. That is patently absurd given the fact that the law itself ALLOWED for discrimination and everyone from corporations to private citizens noticed from the beginning. Hell, before Pence even signed the bill into law, people were already calling the law into question. Claiming the reporter created a false narrative about a law that the people who put it into law ADMITTED allowed for discrimination (by changing it) just makes you look dishonest at this point. Do you have anything but your sour grapes to add?
    And you maintain that the fix to the law eliminated discrimination? That's absurd, and I pointed this out to you earlier in our discussion. As much as you wish to disregard it, the fact is that nothing did in fact happen. Nothing. And changing the law did absolutely nothing to change the view of those who run Memories Pizza. You've been around the planet long enough to realize that, whether you care to admit it or not.
    "I believe that man will not merely endure: he will prevail. He is immortal, not because he alone among creatures has an inexhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, a spirit capable of compassion and sacrifice and endurance." William Faulkner

  10. #1780
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    No, it means that next time you are in need of emergency care some asshole can and will say that you do not meet his moronic criteria and you can die.
    No, police, medical and fire services are controlled by a whole different set of laws and standards and you should know this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •