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Thread: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I dont read but anti-SSM is to admit bigotry.
    So is homosexuality now a race?
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You do realize that around 314AD the majority of Romans were Christians right? In any case...you do not have the right to tell someone what is and isn't a part of their faith.
    And you really ignore that for more than 1500 years Christian weddings did not include wedding cakes? That the whole premise of the religious function of a wedding cake is another bogus attempt at making the wedding cake into a religious object?

    As said, wedding cakes are used in virtually all weddings, even in the Netherlands these cakes are used even though a large majority of Dutch people are not religious. The wedding cake is part of the celebration after the event, it was not a religious object even in Roman age, it was a cultural and even an object of superstitition rather that of faith and Christian origin. And the Ancient Roman empire started long before the birth of the Catholic church.
    Mock the week quote: "I don't understand why people complain about Kim Jung Un testing nuclear weapons, the more he tests the fewer he will have left".

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I read the City Attorney's letter, and he sure as hell did back down.
    wrong, which is why you have nothing to support your claim other than your own certainty

    The fact is the facts changed when HP reorganized and no longer fell under the laws reach. HP backed down by changing its' practices and reducing its' business to only christian marriages. It was driven out of the secular marriage business. Hardly a "win" for HP

    The fact the owners of the Hitching Post had filed the papers that made it a religious organization is irrelevant. It remained a for-profit business, and as such it remained subject to the city ordinance.
    You are leaving out the part where HP retreated from performig secular marriages because that's the part that proves that HP retreated
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Wow, you gave us a link of one website in which the cutting of the cake has been transformed into a religious practice.

    Which is bogus of course, because as said, wedding cakes where a Roman tradition.

    The wedding cake can be used as a religious instrument but historically that is what people have made it into.

    Wedding cake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Wedding cake history | Maisie Fantaisie Wedding Cakes

    History of the Wedding Cake | Let Them Eat Cake!

    The History of Wedding Cakes

    Wedding Cakes in History | Edible Art Bakery & Dessert Cafe, Raleigh, NC

    The Strange History of the Wedding Cake | Arts & Culture | Smithsonian

    The 7 Stage Story Of The Wedding Cake |

    Wedding Cake History | WeddingCakeCreations.com

    Great Cake Places - The History of Wedding Cakes

    A Historical Slice of the Wedding Cake | Curious History

    And you can go on and on and on and on and on. Just because people make wedding cakes into something it is not, does not give them a religious Christian meaning and especially not something that makes them so holy that people who are not Christians or straight are not allowed to have them or some gay hating baker can deny gays a cake. Or how that same "Christian" baker should be allowed to deny jews, muslims, atheists, etc. a wedding cake because they are not part of his "illk"?.

    Sorry, but the marriage is over when the priest/judge/whoever says "By the powers vested in me, you are now man and wife" (or man and man, or wife and wife). People can get married and be legally married without wedding cakes or anything that resembles that.
    I would add that if the baker has sold wedding cakes to non-christian couples, then they have demonstrated that the cake is not a religious symbol to them and that their refusal to sell it to an SSM is motivated by personal animosity and are using religion to dishonestly cloak their hostility
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, I'll take your word for NYC...That, by no means is "most", or "many", that's one. out of how many cities in the US?
    You're the one making the claim that most cities do not have privately owned bus lines, so the burden of proof is on you. I would also note that it doesn't matter if a majority have no private lines (which I doubt) because all it would take is a significant # in order to place a burden on commerce.

    In any case, I am done with this deflection. You tried to bring up a comparison of a metro, city bus service denying someone access to the bus, disingenuously tying the radical gay movement to the civil rights struggle of the 60s. And now, you are desperately trying to talk about anything other than this latest attack on people that had they not been sought out to make a point would have never been in the news for anything like this anyway...
    Ummm, no. You seem to have forgotten the course this part of the discussion has taken. You tried to argue that the availability of alternatives somehow justifies discrimination, as if a little bit of discrimination is acceptable

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So is homosexuality now a race?
    FTR, racial bigotry is not the only form of bigotry.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're the one making the claim that most cities do not have privately owned bus lines, so the burden of proof is on you. I would also note that it doesn't matter if a majority have no private lines (which I doubt) because all it would take is a significant # in order to place a burden on commerce.



    Ummm, no. You seem to have forgotten the course this part of the discussion has taken. You tried to argue that the availability of alternatives somehow justifies discrimination, as if a little bit of discrimination is acceptable



    FTR, racial bigotry is not the only form of bigotry.
    Who's was the bus analogy to begin with? Yours or mine?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    And you really ignore that for more than 1500 years Christian weddings did not include wedding cakes? That the whole premise of the religious function of a wedding cake is another bogus attempt at making the wedding cake into a religious object?

    As said, wedding cakes are used in virtually all weddings, even in the Netherlands these cakes are used even though a large majority of Dutch people are not religious. The wedding cake is part of the celebration after the event, it was not a religious object even in Roman age, it was a cultural and even an object of superstitition rather that of faith and Christian origin. And the Ancient Roman empire started long before the birth of the Catholic church.
    Your point? You still do not have a Right to tell someone what is and isn't a part of their religion.
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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Your point? You still do not have a Right to tell someone what is and isn't a part of their religion.
    So religion trumps law?

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The bill was literally made into law 2 weeks ago. It received criticism from the minute it was passed because it allowed people to discriminate based on another person's sexual orientation. Continuing to claim that some imaginary crime needed to happen for it to be discussed is absurd.
    The law didn't receive criticism that I know of prior to passage. Where were all the incensed people when the legislation was crafted? That seems to place your above conclusion in serious doubt.



    Laws don't get changed unless people pay attention to them. What I have argued (though not explicitly) is that people would have noticed in the same way they notice discrimination that goes on in countries they don't live in. They research and then discuss topics. Believing the attention paid was the product of a reporter and not the law itself is absurd. Welcome to Politics 101.
    And yet the attention paid was precisely because a reporter went out specifically looking for a business that might have reservations and highlighting that business even though no gay couple had approached that business for a service. Welcome to Politics 102.



    And yet, it wasn't the "perception and attempted twisting of it" that got it changed. You can't twist a law that wouldn't have allowed for discrimination in the first place.
    I would agree, but I was referring to a contrived event - not what you're claiming.



    What reporter? Continuing to assert that nothing would have happened is saying that there was nothing wrong with the law and one person convinced mega-corporations, multinationals, and millions of people that there was something wrong with this law. That is patently absurd.
    Again, you're answering something I didn't claim. I don't care whether the law was changed or not. I don't think there was anything wrong with the law as it was originally written. If the state of Indiana feels it will suffer harm, whether through lost business or by subjecting some of it's citizens to possible discrimination, then they can and perhaps should've changed the law. I simply maintain that the reporter asked a speculative question of no substance intentionally to create a false narrative which would inflame some people. This is not new, but it's not ethical either. There have been a lot of fabricated stories of late.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    So religion trumps law?
    Rights trump law. Our Right to Freedom of Association trumps anti-discrimination laws. And the funny thing about that....religion doesn't even have to be a factor in the least for it to apply.

    However I am wondering how you got what you said here from what you are responding to. Which was of a poster attempting to deny that something is religious just because it wasn't always a part of that religions doctrine. He doesn't seem to realize that not everything religious has always been a part of that religions doctrine. This applies to MANY things and not just cakes. Ex: Christmas.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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