I've really struggled with connecting the dots here. I have tried and can't figure out how more people getting married negatively affects the sanctity of straight marriages. In my feeble mind, that should increase the societal expectation that committed couples make a legally binding commitment, gay and straight.From a moral perspective, there's the potential breakdown of the sanctity of marriage.
Again, the problem with a husband or wife finding out their spouse is gay is directly related to the shame and contempt society has traditionally heaped on openly gay individuals. Faced with that shame, and the condemnation of their family, church, friends, coworkers, the path of least resistance is to live a lie as a straight person. Obviously many cannot maintain that lie for a lifetime and a horribly broken family is the result.In the minds of many, both situations have the potential of eroding the fabric of society and traditional marriage. This above all is what many fear most about the LGBT community. Problem here is more people die of cancer than they do of AIDS, and even without adding homosexuality into the equation more marriage still fail due to money problems, physical abuse and infidelity with a member of the opposite sex than they do from discovering that their former spouse is gay or lesbian or has some other deep, dark sexual demon in their closet.
I agree, obviously. And I've been around lots of gays in bars, street parties, regular parties, restaurants, etc. and never have been hit on. They have no interest hitting on straight people. I suppose it happens, but no more often than women intentionally hit on gay men, or straight men on lesbians.While I agree with those who see homosexuality as a sin, I'm also of the view that this is their life and as long as no one of that lifestyle attempts to impose themselves on me personally, I adhere to the tenant "hate the sin, love the sinner".
Right, they're people same as everyone else with a different sexual orientation. It's why the biggest change IMO is the number of Americans who report they know an openly gay person - from 20% or so, to over 60% just decade or so later. If a family member you love tells you he is gay, it's hard to maintain the belief they're this "other" being. No, they're the same brother/sister/son/daughter/cousin, etc. with a different sexual orientation. Same with a good childhood friend - you liked him or her when you thought he/she was straight - they're gay and you no longer do? That's tough to maintain without evidence to support it. And that evidence typically isn't there - they're that person, gay. Kids now say, "so what" and that's a good thing IMO.Sidenote: I have a couple of gay friends - one male, the other female. As friendships, social interactions and casual associations go, if they aren't having public displays of affections, i.e., holding hands or kissing their significant other, I've found them to be just as normal as anyone else.
FWIW, kissing (assuming it's not a make out session or something) and holding hands is obviously totally normal for gays and straights...
Last edited by JasperL; 04-05-15 at 02:10 PM.
How many men (conservatives or liberals) are going to rush out to proudly declare to all their friends "hey guys!!! Great news!!! I just found out my son is gay!"? How many women are just super happy for that news? No...what you DO get a lot of is...'you know...we love you know matter what and we just want you to be happy'. Usually that is said with an almost smile and the tears dont come until later.
Ya know though...we could always put it to the test. A national vote...single issue, not tied to candidates or anything else. Decision made once and for all and good luck to both sides. Right? What percentage of blacks would vote for gay marriage? What percentage of hispanics? Oh...I hear the response already (because the dialogue has already been had here). "'Rights' shouldnt be subject to a vote or majority rule." Because you know better. Were it not for court intervention, there would still be 33+ states with laws either banning gay marriage or clarifying marriage as only between a man and a woman.
So...they should put it to a vote. Right?
OK...I can see that.
But the point wasnt really ABOUT Obama (and it seldom is). The point was about the fact that his position mirrored many if not a majority of conservatives on gay marriage and homosexuality, and for some reason...left leaning folks are real quick to toss out the whole bigot/homophobe thing....to conservatives.
The last I checked, no federal law prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation in public accommodations. Where a duty to serve them exists, it is because a state public accommodations law has created it. Those laws may violate various First Amendment rights as applied, and they have been held to do just that in the cases you dismiss as irrelevant.
It's true that these constitutional issues tend to be less likely to come up where a restaurant, hotel, or some other traditional public accommodation is involved. But all sorts of things are defined as "public accommodations" under these laws, and the setting won't always be a pizzeria. There have already been a number of cases in other states involving public accommodations --even commercial ones--where the constitutionality of the law has been much more questionable.
There are several law review articles on the various First Amendment freedoms state public accommodations laws that prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation may violate as applied. There are also three Supreme Court decisions on them. It's obvious you haven't read any of these things, but I doubt you would understand them if you had.