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Thread: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    If I walk into a bakery and ask the baker to make me a "penis cake" as a, um, gag gift for a party that's just making food, too, isn't it? Is he discriminating against me if he refuses?
    Try it and found out. And if he turns you down, sue him on Judge Judy so we can all watch your humiliation.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    From a public policy standpoint, most people fear homosexuality because of the potential health and moral implications such a lifestyle could bring.

    On the health front, there is the obvious - AIDS/HIV.
    But SSM reduces, not increases, the chance of AIDS spreading. People ARE gay (or straight) so prohibiting SSM doesn't reduce the number of gays or the number in intimate sexual relationships. It would be like worrying about one parent families, and prohibiting marriage till 30 or something to make sure the couple is 'ready' to have kids before the state allows it.... No, that just guarantees a whole lot more sex outside marriage, and the likelihood of an unwanted, out of wedlock child.

    From a moral perspective, there's the potential breakdown of the sanctity of marriage.
    I've really struggled with connecting the dots here. I have tried and can't figure out how more people getting married negatively affects the sanctity of straight marriages. In my feeble mind, that should increase the societal expectation that committed couples make a legally binding commitment, gay and straight.

    In the minds of many, both situations have the potential of eroding the fabric of society and traditional marriage. This above all is what many fear most about the LGBT community. Problem here is more people die of cancer than they do of AIDS, and even without adding homosexuality into the equation more marriage still fail due to money problems, physical abuse and infidelity with a member of the opposite sex than they do from discovering that their former spouse is gay or lesbian or has some other deep, dark sexual demon in their closet.
    Again, the problem with a husband or wife finding out their spouse is gay is directly related to the shame and contempt society has traditionally heaped on openly gay individuals. Faced with that shame, and the condemnation of their family, church, friends, coworkers, the path of least resistance is to live a lie as a straight person. Obviously many cannot maintain that lie for a lifetime and a horribly broken family is the result.

    While I agree with those who see homosexuality as a sin, I'm also of the view that this is their life and as long as no one of that lifestyle attempts to impose themselves on me personally, I adhere to the tenant "hate the sin, love the sinner".
    I agree, obviously. And I've been around lots of gays in bars, street parties, regular parties, restaurants, etc. and never have been hit on. They have no interest hitting on straight people. I suppose it happens, but no more often than women intentionally hit on gay men, or straight men on lesbians.

    Sidenote: I have a couple of gay friends - one male, the other female. As friendships, social interactions and casual associations go, if they aren't having public displays of affections, i.e., holding hands or kissing their significant other, I've found them to be just as normal as anyone else.
    Right, they're people same as everyone else with a different sexual orientation. It's why the biggest change IMO is the number of Americans who report they know an openly gay person - from 20% or so, to over 60% just decade or so later. If a family member you love tells you he is gay, it's hard to maintain the belief they're this "other" being. No, they're the same brother/sister/son/daughter/cousin, etc. with a different sexual orientation. Same with a good childhood friend - you liked him or her when you thought he/she was straight - they're gay and you no longer do? That's tough to maintain without evidence to support it. And that evidence typically isn't there - they're that person, gay. Kids now say, "so what" and that's a good thing IMO.

    FWIW, kissing (assuming it's not a make out session or something) and holding hands is obviously totally normal for gays and straights...
    Last edited by JasperL; 04-05-15 at 03:10 PM.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    When the government forces you to provide a service you don't want to provide, it's tyranny


    When someone provides a service to some but refuses to provide that service to others, that's discrimination.




    "Tolerance is giving to everyone every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    There is no "vast majority" that thinks homosexuality is wrong.
    Riiiiiiiiight.

    How many men (conservatives or liberals) are going to rush out to proudly declare to all their friends "hey guys!!! Great news!!! I just found out my son is gay!"? How many women are just super happy for that news? No...what you DO get a lot of is...'you know...we love you know matter what and we just want you to be happy'. Usually that is said with an almost smile and the tears dont come until later.

    Ya know though...we could always put it to the test. A national vote...single issue, not tied to candidates or anything else. Decision made once and for all and good luck to both sides. Right? What percentage of blacks would vote for gay marriage? What percentage of hispanics? Oh...I hear the response already (because the dialogue has already been had here). "'Rights' shouldnt be subject to a vote or majority rule." Because you know better. Were it not for court intervention, there would still be 33+ states with laws either banning gay marriage or clarifying marriage as only between a man and a woman.

    But...but...the POLLS...right?

    So...they should put it to a vote. Right?

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Funny...I've been to 49 of the 50 states and a large part fo the world and Indiana is one of the last places I think of when I think of overt racism. Certainly less than in say...Hawaii, or in major cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia (yikes!), Chicago, etc.

    I believe the vast majority of us are of the category that believes homoesxuality is wrong and do not support gay marriage but do love and care for and hope for their happiness. Thats just me, but then...Im not desperately seeking 'homophobia'. I find it literally laugh out loud funny the number of people that shriek and wail against conservatives that hold such positions when those positions almost exactly mirror the 'unevolved' beliefs of the democrat they voted for and put into the WH in 2008.
    I think it's fair to say Obama's "beliefs" are political as the wind blows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Riiiiiiiiight.

    How many men (conservatives or liberals) are going to rush out to proudly declare to all their friends "hey guys!!! Great news!!! I just found out my son is gay!"? How many women are just super happy for that news?
    No. I disagree. I wouldn't care if my daughters were gay. I would care about the difficulties they would face from the types of right wing assholes like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I think it's fair to say Obama's "beliefs" are political as the wind blows.
    Gotcha. So he not only presented as a bigot and a homophobe (which was aiiiiiight with liberals) but he is a liar and hypocrite with no principles, morals, and values as well.

    OK...I can see that.

    But the point wasnt really ABOUT Obama (and it seldom is). The point was about the fact that his position mirrored many if not a majority of conservatives on gay marriage and homosexuality, and for some reason...left leaning folks are real quick to toss out the whole bigot/homophobe thing....to conservatives.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    No, your dishonest misrepresentations are nonsense along with the irrelevant cases you cite.
    Thank you for your opinion, but I would say the misrepresentations are yours. You neither understand nor care about the constitutional rights involved, and it shows.

    The last I checked, no federal law prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation in public accommodations. Where a duty to serve them exists, it is because a state public accommodations law has created it. Those laws may violate various First Amendment rights as applied, and they have been held to do just that in the cases you dismiss as irrelevant.

    It's true that these constitutional issues tend to be less likely to come up where a restaurant, hotel, or some other traditional public accommodation is involved. But all sorts of things are defined as "public accommodations" under these laws, and the setting won't always be a pizzeria. There have already been a number of cases in other states involving public accommodations --even commercial ones--where the constitutionality of the law has been much more questionable.

    There are several law review articles on the various First Amendment freedoms state public accommodations laws that prohibit discrimination by sexual orientation may violate as applied. There are also three Supreme Court decisions on them. It's obvious you haven't read any of these things, but I doubt you would understand them if you had.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Do you believe it is possible to disagree with a lifestyle choice, believe that gay marriage is wrong, yet still manage to love care and hope for the other persons happiness...even if their beliefs do not agree with yours?
    Yes, obviously I do. It's why I support SSM and believe everyone should as well. Not because all people will believe SSM is the moral choice, but because the law doesn't ask for our approval of individual marriages. It asks two people to agree, and only two. I personally believe Newt is an immoral person, but the law allows him to commit serial adultery and marry his mistresses. That's as it should be, and I hope Newt and his current wife are happy.

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    Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Gotcha. So he not only presented as a bigot and a homophobe (which was aiiiiiight with liberals) but he is a liar and hypocrite with no principles, morals, and values as well.

    OK...I can see that.

    But the point wasnt really ABOUT Obama (and it seldom is). The point was about the fact that his position mirrored many if not a majority of conservatives on gay marriage and homosexuality, and for some reason...left leaning folks are real quick to toss out the whole bigot/homophobe thing....to conservatives.
    The difference is, and I'm not taking sides, is that one group is blatantly homophobic and continues to be, while the other came around to reason, yes, Obama may have been a "homophobe" at some point, but at least he realized he needed to adopt a more progressive stance.

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