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Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed[W:1581]

Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

How did this place close when they just got 50k from Gofundme?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yes, they do have those rights. There are anti discrimination ordinances, "protected class," the 14th amendment, roper v evans

This is never going to change, so get over it. The only question is how you can justify lgbt discrimination, while religion, gender, veterans, national origin etc are all immune.

The whole "protected class" thing has to do with Affirmative Action laws. Laws are not Rights and they do not confer any Rights. And the 14th Amendment talks about equal protection under the law. It does not state or even imply that private businesses or even private individuals are not able to discriminate. If it did then you would not have the Right to boycott any business that held a view opposite of yours. You would HAVE to give them your money.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Actually RFRA laws have been in effect for years in many states and even the federal level. This is not a new thing.

I'm not sure how that addresses the point we were discussing (ie has bigotry been reduced to such a low level that it can't have a significant impact on commerce)

Read the part about zoning. You'll note that the main theme is about safety.

The fact remains the states, including OK, have the power to zone for reasons other than safety which is why "the main theme" is safety but not "the only theme"

I'm surprised that you are arguing that safety is the only reason a state can regulate commerce when there are so many examples (ex business hours, minimum wage, easement, signage, recordkeeping, etc) that show that this is not true.

So SCOTUS has never been wrong? They're always right in whether something is constitutional or not? Sorry, I doubt you believe that. As such its quite logical to argue that their decision can be or is unconstitutional.
Right v wrong is a matter of opinion; constitutional v unconstitutional is a matter of law.

That actually has to do with planning. Not zoning. And I believe those laws to be wrong also. Promoting commerce in this way is essentially demanding that you sell your property to meet X requirement size or else is against our property rights.

It's zoning. It's a zoning law. And you're belief in wrong is opinion. The local govts power to make such zoning laws is a legal matter, not a matter of opinion.

You are free to believe that govt should only protect people's rights and safety but our govt was formed and given additional powers including the power to regulate commerce

I won't argue that they do have a legitimate interest in promoting commerce. However they do not have enough of a valid interest to deny peoples Rights.

Whether or not is it valid *enough* is something that is determined through the democratic political process, which is exactly what the framers intended.


But what I am saying is that by this type of "promoting commerce" it is also having the effect of getting rid of commerce. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The govt has the power to regulate commerce in order to promote commerce. Having a power does not require the govt to exercise it. It is for the people to decide (by participating in the political process) when and how that power is to be exercised . Therefore, the fact that the govt doesn't always exercise a power does not mean that power is illegitimate or unconstitutional.

Except we both know that none of those examples made those exceptions based on any law. They based it on feelings.

No, we do not *both* know that.

Argumentum ad populum. The popularity of a law does not legitimize a law. And I've explained how that is no longer true in today's society and population amount.

I'm not arguing that "it's right because it's popular". You argued that such laws are not needed because such bigotry is so uncommon and unsupported. I'm not saying "the law is right because the people in those states supported it". I'm pointing out that the support for such laws prove that this bigotry is not uncommon.

Democracy is nothing more than mob rule. I much prefer our republic type system which is limited by peoples Rights. Even our founders were against democracy.

The founders opposed "pure" democracy. They obviously supported representative democracy because they created a system which relies on it.

The fact remains that the constitution gives the govt the power to regulate business in order to promote commerce, which is a legitimate interest of govt. Since history has shown how discrimination can inhibit commerce, govt has the power to prohibit discrimination.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Neither is the Christian world.

No one claimed the Christian world was obsessed with it. However, there is very little doubt that there is a sizeable Christian population in the US that is obsessed with regulating morality and whitewashing their hatred of homosexuals. To disagree with that is to go against: Elections run solely on the issue of restricting gay marriage, governors pandering to the evangelical right, legislative bodies creating laws to restrict homosexual couples etc.

There are always exceptions both within Islam and Christianity. There are, for example, entire Muslim nations which have codified the refusal to accept the validity of SSM or homosexuality, and the punishments are rather severe. I see no such correlative example within Christian or generally secular nations.

Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Act, 2014 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The legislative proposal would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda domestically, and further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Eh it's probably easy to support discrimination when you've probably never really had to deal with it. Must be nice!

This is essentially what I've had to explain to conservatives multiple times now. As I already said in an earlier post, the problem isn't about religious freedom (except insofar as religious freedom is cited as a pretext for behaving like complete assholes towards other people), but about creating a de facto second class. By barring the minority from patronizing as many businesses as the majority has access to(which includes schools and financial institutions, btw, not just bakeries and wedding photographers as this stream of stories would have us believe), you are creating a disadvantaged class. Of course the majority has no problem trolling everybody by saying "just go to another business" if discriminated against, because the majority is fully aware that as a majority they can in no way be meaningfully threatened by a minority.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Well, considering all of the transgendered weddings in Iran, the recent gay weddings in Malaysia, and the gay wedding that took place during the OWS protest, one can only assume that "Muslim" food was had and they employed at least 1 "Muslim restaurant". Don't believe me? Well,

gay-muslim.jpg


The Muslim world isn't as obsessed with homosexuality as some people may think.

What makes you think those people in that picture were Muslim?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

lol the same iran where "we do not have homosexuals like in your country" and gay people are forced into sex changes and if they refuse, are sometimes executed? I mean i even remember a couple minors were hung.

Pandering to the media sources doesn't change reality. The Iranian regime is pretty accepting of transgender issues. As a matter of fact, Iran is second only to Thailand when it comes to gender change operations. Ironically, they believe it to be a cure for homosexual tendencies.

Or how about saudi arabia, where it's still a death penalty? Just look at the abhorrent laws on homosexuality in the muslim world

You want to go through examples of some countries being too radical in their hatred for homosexuality?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

The whole "protected class" thing has to do with Affirmative Action laws. Laws are not Rights and they do not confer any Rights. And the 14th Amendment talks about equal protection under the law. It does not state or even imply that private businesses or even private individuals are not able to discriminate. If it did then you would not have the Right to boycott any business that held a view opposite of yours. You would HAVE to give them your money.

Equal protection applies to the laws themselves. For these other groups to be "protected class," so does lgbt or else there's no equal protection. No actually, protected class is what prevents employment and housing discrimination. Yes, those are rights. If violated, the victim can sue. Same with anti discrimination laws in various states and cities

I know this must be heartbreaking to you that businesses that get tax breaks and incentives and public maintenance can't discriminate
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

What makes you think those people in that picture were Muslim?

Oh, nothing except for the crescent in the middle of their pride shirt. :roll:
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No one claimed the Christian world was obsessed with it. However, there is very little doubt that there is a sizeable Christian population in the US that is obsessed with regulating morality and whitewashing their hatred of homosexuals. To disagree with that is to go against: Elections run solely on the issue of restricting gay marriage, governors pandering to the evangelical right, legislative bodies creating laws to restrict homosexual couples etc.

No doubt. And surely you realize that with a few changes in particular words above, it would be an equally apt description of issues on the political left and a lack of tolerance there, as well, as this particular episode highlights. It just could be that both are wrong, but I wouldn't want to be the fellow that points such a thing out. I have better things to do.



 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

When will people understand that the written word on Twitter is easily shared documentation, not just idle chatter.

Given today's society, they should not have been surprised by the flashback.

If they were surprised, they are fools.

Actually, I think I may be wrong about them tweeting
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Pandering to the media sources doesn't change reality. The Iranian regime is pretty accepting of transgender issues. As a matter of fact, Iran is second only to Thailand when it comes to gender change operations. Ironically, they believe it to be a cure for homosexual tendencies.



You want to go through examples of some countries being too radical in their hatred for homosexuality?

And you know why that is? Because the koran doesn't forbid sex changes. Seriously. The 7th century book doesn't forbid sex changes, which didn't exist back then. It's like giving credit to the culprit

It is still monstrous to force homosexuals into sex changes on threat of death
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Eh it's probably easy to support discrimination when you've probably never really had to deal with it. Must be nice!

:lamo Must be easy to claim that just because one isn't <insert whatever commonly associated with discrimination class you want here> doesn't mean that one has never been discriminated against.

When I was a single white male aged 21. I attempted to get some help with health insurance via our local welfare office. I was declined. And the person that declined me told me WHY I was declined and that she thought it was bogus also. I was declined BECAUSE I was a single white male aged 21. She told me straight up that if I had been female or a black male/female then I would have received assistance.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Actually, it is almost entirely exposure. Those who know or are related to someone gay are several times more likely to support same-sex marriage regardless of where they live or their religion. Of cpuse, where they live and their religion do play some part in whether they are likely to meet and get to know gay people.

Yes, that is absolutely a factor as well, and one is that is my personal pet peeve. You shouldn't have to wait for the object of your bigotry to be a family member before realizing they're human.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

What makes you think those people in that picture were Muslim?

Take a close look at their shirts. See the crescent moon and star in the middle of the rainbow?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

tol·er·ance
/ˈtäl(ə)rəns/
noun
noun: tolerance

1. the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with

please see the bolded part. you evidently don't know the definition of tolerance either.
you don't get to pick and choose which part of the word you like.
you don't get to re-write the definition of a word to justify your argument.

what does their spiritual life matter? sounds like a strawman to me.

the fact is people that say they are tolerant really aren't but it makes a good sound bite.

Orwell would be proud of how the right wing has redefined "tolerance" and "bigotry." In this era of newspeak, George Wallace was an intolerant bigot, and so were those on the ground working for civil rights for blacks in the South. The murdered civil rights workers were intolerant of white supremacists and enforced second class status for blacks, and so bigots same as their murderers. Etc.

Of course, that's insane. In this Orwellian era, this sentence would in fact have no meaning - "My boss is a bigot" and this would be a perfectly normal sentence - "I just love my boss because he's such a kind, understanding, intolerant, bigoted man." In reality, of course, intolerant and bigot have accepted meanings, and any literate person reading the first sentence KNOWS what kind of person it describes (in short, an a$$hole who does NOT preside over a rainbow workforce or welcome anyone who doesn't believe as he does), and would be scratching their head over the second because it makes no sense at all.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

:lamo Must be easy to claim that just because one isn't <insert whatever commonly associated with discrimination class you want here> doesn't mean that one has never been discriminated against.

When I was a single white male aged 21. I attempted to get some help with health insurance via our local welfare office. I was declined. And the person that declined me told me WHY I was declined and that she thought it was bogus also. I was declined BECAUSE I was a single white male aged 21. She told me straight up that if I had been female or a black male/female then I would have received assistance.

That's just what the caseworkers said. As a Hispanic female, I was declined multiple times when I was younger and I tried to get medicaid when I was out of work and had no health insurance. I don't know about your state requirements but yeah from what I know it's very rare when a single person with no children or disability gets medicaid, it's actually kind of hard to get it - no matter the color.

Now let's say it was true that it was BECAUSE you are a white male, don't you find that wrong?
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

:lamo Must be easy to claim that just because one isn't <insert whatever commonly associated with discrimination class you want here> doesn't mean that one has never been discriminated against.

When I was a single white male aged 21. I attempted to get some help with health insurance via our local welfare office. I was declined. And the person that declined me told me WHY I was declined and that she thought it was bogus also. I was declined BECAUSE I was a single white male aged 21. She told me straight up that if I had been female or a black male/female then I would have received assistance.

Well now the mystery starts to unravel
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Have you ever traveled outside the US? A kiss on the cheek(s) by people of the same sex is rather common in much of the world, including some places where homosexual behaviour is subject to severe punishment. Then there is the fact that your first comment only mentioned one person coming in to buy a pizza. That's why I asked about identifying marks or badges for the "queers and faggots" (not your words, but commonly used in some groups)

I'm sorry...are we talking about other countries? Or just the US?

And such words would not be uttered around me without some comment showing disapproval from me. Those are slurs and not to be had around my kids.

Also the "one" is generic. For all I know hundreds or even thousands could be the number.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Yes, that is absolutely a factor as well, and one is that is my personal pet peeve. You shouldn't have to wait for the object of your bigotry to be a family member before realizing they're human.

Could be worse though. Plenty families still totally reject them upon finding out.

It's just amazing how for instance michael sam's parent can accept his incarcerated/dead siblings but publicly attacks michael's sexuality. It somehow has become a graver sin than murder
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

:lamo Must be easy to claim that just because one isn't <insert whatever commonly associated with discrimination class you want here> doesn't mean that one has never been discriminated against.

When I was a single white male aged 21. I attempted to get some help with health insurance via our local welfare office. I was declined. And the person that declined me told me WHY I was declined and that she thought it was bogus also. I was declined BECAUSE I was a single white male aged 21. She told me straight up that if I had been female or a black male/female then I would have received assistance.

Statistically, though (and depending on the region you live in, of course), if you're a white hetero Christian you've probably never encountered discrimination from a minority. Okay fine, yes, a lot of us might have encountered that one taco vendor who had a bug up his ass one day and refused to sell us a taco, but it's not an endemic problem for the majority.
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

No one claimed the Christian world was obsessed with it. However, there is very little doubt that there is a sizeable Christian population in the US that is obsessed with regulating morality and whitewashing their hatred of homosexuals. To disagree with that is to go against: Elections run solely on the issue of restricting gay marriage, governors pandering to the evangelical right, legislative bodies creating laws to restrict homosexual couples etc.



Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Act, 2014 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



What is the "Christian world"?

In my church, Canadian Baptist, we are divided on this issue, although we have a lesbian minister. Others are fundamentalists who show up a pride events and make asses of themselves. Still others are in the closet. As a member I volunteer as a writer for one of two major pride parades....where does that fit

What is the "Christian World"?

In your case I suspect it is a pre-established mind set.

I am willing to bet serious coin that the majority of the bullies responsible for this haven't been inside a church in years if ever, and have never even considered what Jesus would do. This stopped being about gay marriage a long time ago when someone covered it in pig skin and started throwing Hail Mary passes. This is all about jack boot politics
 
Re: Indiana's 'No Gay Wedding' Pizzeria Has Closed

Could be worse though. Plenty families still totally reject them upon finding out.

It's just amazing how for instance michael sam's parent can accept his incarcerated/dead siblings but publicly attacks michael's sexuality. It somehow has become a graver sin than murder

Yeah, I know about that too. I saw For the Bible Tells Me So. That **** was crazy.
 
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