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Thread: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What you are saying is that you do not go with free expression of opinions or free religious practice. That is really quite sad.

    No one is doing anything to opposes their free exercise of opinion or religious practice. You guys keep trying to phrase it that way, but the reality remains. They are free to have their beliefs and worship practices all they want. What they are not free to do, however, is write their own rules and use their religion as a shield to manipulate the laws so that they can practice bigotry and discrimination that is not allowed in this great country.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No one is doing anything to opposes their free exercise of opinion or religious practice. You guys keep trying to phrase it that way, but the reality remains. They are free to have their beliefs and worship practices all they want. What they are not free to do, however, is write their own rules and use their religion as a shield to manipulate the laws so that they can practice bigotry and discrimination that is not allowed in this great country.
    You see? That is what a bigot from Mississippi would have said about the way Blacks were treated in the 1950's. It is worse than the Goldwater crowd wrote about the conscientious objectors of the time. No one was discriminating against them. They were getting what they deserved for trying to "write their own rules and use their religion as a shield to manipulate the laws so that they can practice ..... that is not allowed in this great country". But probably you don't see and think that it is not bigotry the way religious freedom of practice is being trodden under foot. And I am saying this as a non religious person. What you people are doing there is a horrendous break with American culture and the Constitution by not respecting people's fundamental rights.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    You see? That is what a bigot from Mississippi would have said about the way Blacks were treated in the 1950's. It is worse than the Goldwater crowd wrote about the conscientious objectors of the time. No one was discriminating against them. They were getting what they deserved for trying to "write their own rules and use their religion as a shield to manipulate the laws so that they can practice ..... that is not allowed in this great country".
    don't really see the point there.

    But probably you don't see and think that it is not bigotry the way religious freedom of practice is being trodden under foot. And I am saying this as a non religious person. What you people are doing there is a horrendous break with American culture and the Constitution by not respecting people's fundamental rights.
    It's certainly not a break with American culture since the civil rights era - 50 years or so. And our culture is as a great melting pot where we welcome people from all over the world and from all religions and no religion and somehow make it work pretty well. Anti-discrimination laws are entirely consistent with that culture.

    As far as the Constitution, anti-discrimination laws have been challenged and upheld, consistent with our Constitution.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    I think we can thank the SCOTUS for all these discrimination bills and many more to come. This is exactly what legal experts predicted in the wake of the SC's 'Hobby Lobby' decision.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ggwilder View Post
    I think we can thank the SCOTUS for all these discrimination bills and many more to come.
    At least you admit that these bills discriminate.

    This is exactly what legal experts predicted in the wake of the SC's 'Hobby Lobby' decision.
    Are you referring to the right-wing Republican USSC ?
    Chemists Have Solutions .

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    don't really see the point there.



    It's certainly not a break with American culture since the civil rights era - 50 years or so. And our culture is as a great melting pot where we welcome people from all over the world and from all religions and no religion and somehow make it work pretty well. Anti-discrimination laws are entirely consistent with that culture.

    As far as the Constitution, anti-discrimination laws have been challenged and upheld, consistent with our Constitution.
    1. Then reread it.

    2. Anti-discrimination is fine and good, where it does not cause discrimination.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Why is this fossil asking the legislature to do anything? Does he not know he has veto power?

    Fully expect everything that proceeds to be political face saving

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    1. Then reread it.

    2. Anti-discrimination is fine and good, where it does not cause discrimination.
    I did, several times, no luck understanding it.

    And I'm not sure how anti-discrimination laws can have any actual effect unless they cause "discrimination" under your definition. The laws by definition compel activity or prevent activity.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I did, several times, no luck understanding it.

    And I'm not sure how anti-discrimination laws can have any actual effect unless they cause "discrimination" under your definition. The laws by definition compel activity or prevent activity.
    1. Then it will remain so, I guess.
    2. You say it. A law regulates activities. And the activities that law invokes should not be discrimination in the sense of suppressing citizens conscientiously objecting to something for reasons of religious belief.

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    Re: Arkansas Governor Asks Lawmakers to Recall Contentious Religious Freedom Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    1. Then reread it.

    2. Anti-discrimination is fine and good, where it does not cause discrimination.
    We already have a federal RFTA law which protects religious liberty.

    The Indiana law has some key differences.

    Is Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act the same as the federal version that became law two decades ago? Not quite.

    Indiana's RFRA is similar, but not identical. And there's debate about how much those differences matter.


    Proponents say Senate Bill 101, which was signed into law by Gov. Mike Pence last week, is virtually the same as the federal statute. It prohibits the government from substantially burdening a person's ability to practice his or her religion — unless the government can show it has a compelling interest to do so. And the government must choose the least restrictive way to achieve its goal.

    Others, however, have emphasized the differences in the laws, saying the Indiana law is written more broadly than its federal counterpart.


    One of them is U.S. Sen. Chuck Schumer who, along with Sen. Ted Kennedy, introduced the federal RFRA when he was a congressman in 1993. The Democrat from New York said on his Facebook page that saying the two laws mirror each other is "completely false" and "disingenuous" and called on Pence to stop making such comparison.

    Schumer cited what he called "significant, legal differences" and said the Indiana law "in no way resembles the intent or application of the federal RFRA which protects religious liberty.


    Here are ways the laws differ and what opponents and proponents say the differences mean:

    1) Unlike the federal law, the Indiana bill explicitly protects the exercise of religion of entities, which includes for profit corporations.

    ...
    Opponents of the bill say it would grant religious liberty rights to any corporation, any group of people and any business, regardless of whether or not members of that corporation or business share a religious belief. The federal law grants such rights only to people, nonprofit organizations and, in the case of the often-cited Hobby Lobby ruling, to closely-held corporations where owners share the same religious beliefs.

    That difference is a concern, said Katherine Franke, a Columbia University law professor, because the law would grant religious rights to broad entities.

    "It completely expands the idea that anything can have a right to religious liberty even if they're incorporated for secular or commercial purposes,"
    said Franke, who's one of 30 legal scholars who raised concerns about RFRA in a letter to Rep. Ed Delaney last February. "We haven't seen this broad definition."
    Read more:

    How Indiana's RFRA differs from federal version
    Last edited by minnie616; 04-03-15 at 09:24 AM.

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