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Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

joG said:
What is scary is that we think it good to discriminate against people for their religious practice and conscientious objection. That is something the US didn't even do, when it was a question of national security and draftees could refuse participating in war.
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How is it that businesses that receive their licence to do business from the government being discriminated against by requiring them not to discriminate against the public?
 
JANFU said:
Ok then. If that is the "fix" he signs, we're good to go and all arguments to the contrary, that the law was intended to permit the denial of service to anyone under the color of religious freedom, were in error.
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[/QUOTE]

We'll see and uh no, they weren't in error. It just means they amended the law in response to massive boycotts. What they intended to get away with at the time is a diff matter

What you're saying is the thief who is terribly sorry he's going to jail, is proof he's sorry the crime was committed
 
Montecresto said:
I'm certain you're joking, but I suppose I'll play along.

How to Find the Right License and Permit for Your New Business

Starting a business? Confused about whether you need a business license or permit?

Virtually every business needs some form of license or permit to operate legally.

https://www.sba.gov/blogs/how-find-right-license-and-permit-your-new-business
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IN.gov

Indiana does not have any one single, comprehensive business license. However, all businesses operating in Indiana are subject to regulatory requirements that may involve several state agencies. Businesses that are starting, expanding, hiring employees for the first time, changing ownership or organizational structure, or moving into Indiana will need to consider the areas listed in this section. . . .
 
Lutherf said:
I've got a question about all this.

Let's say that there are 10 bakeries in the local area. Nine of the bakeries are pretty generic but one specializes in Christian themed goods. They primarily make cakes, cookies and cupcakes decorated with angels, crosses and other Christian themed adornment. They don't have a sign on their door or anything that says "Christians Only" but it's pretty obvious what their business model is. Now a gay couple decides to get married. They have been very active in the "gay rights" movement and want to make a statement so they intentionally choose this particular baker to provide a cake for their wedding because they are sure that there will be resistance. Sure enough, the Christian baker turns the job down based on their religious convictions.

Now here's the question, in this scenario who is discriminating against whom?
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The only question I have: what exactly is a "Christian only" business model?
 
Kushinator said:
The only question I have: what exactly is a "Christian only" business model?
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What are you talking about? The business model is simply that they focus on religious themed products.
 
Jack Hays said:
IN.gov

Indiana does not have any one single, comprehensive business license. However, all businesses operating in Indiana are subject to regulatory requirements that may involve several state agencies. Businesses that are starting, expanding, hiring employees for the first time, changing ownership or organizational structure, or moving into Indiana will need to consider the areas listed in this section. . . .
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Your suggesting that Memories didn't have one of these.

Indiana has over 400 different licenses, permits, certifications, and other permissions, which could be required to engage in certain activities.

IN.gov
 
Montecresto said:
I'm certain you're joking, but I suppose I'll play along.

How to Find the Right License and Permit for Your New Business

Starting a business? Confused about whether you need a business license or permit?

Virtually every business needs some form of license or permit to operate legally.

https://www.sba.gov/blogs/how-find-right-license-and-permit-your-new-business
Click to expand...

One of the biggest reasons business owners need licenses is so the government can track revenue for taxation purposes. However, licenses and permits are also used to protect the public.
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Even home-based businesses and sole proprietors typically need a permit from their local government to operate legally.
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Because every business has different licensing and permit requirements depending on its location and industry, it can be intimidating to know where to start.
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haha...

So basically when I said people are forced to get a license to use their property as a business I was 100% correct. Exactly how is that not a violation of property rights? Does anyone want to answer that for me?
 
Montecresto said:
Your suggesting that Memories didn't have one of these.

Indiana has over 400 different licenses, permits, certifications, and other permissions, which could be required to engage in certain activities.

IN.gov
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Yes, and none of them has anything to do with discrimination or religious convictions.
 
Henrin said:
haha...

So basically when I said people are forced to get a license to use their property as a business I was 100% correct. Exactly how is that not a violation of property rights? Does anyone want to answer that for me?
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Yes, licensing is a requirement for business. I don't understand your point.
 
Lutherf said:
What are you talking about? The business model is simply that they focus on religious themed products.
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If making money by providing goods or services comes second, you are taking about something completely different.

That's not a business plan.
 
Jack Hays said:
Yes, and none of them has anything to do with discrimination or religious convictions.
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Apparently we need to go back to the first comment I made that you responded to. The government of Indiana issues licensing to Indiana businesses, and the same government is also responsible for enforcing anti-discrimination laws. So its reasonable that a business license could be pulled from a company that is discriminating.
 
Montecresto said:
Yes, licensing is a requirement for business. I don't understand your point.
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I was just using your post to support an argument I made earlier. Sorry for the confusion. :D
 
Montecresto said:
Apparently we need to go back to the first comment I made that you responded to. The government of Indiana issues licensing to Indiana businesses, and the same government is also responsible for enforcing anti-discrimination laws. So its reasonable that a business license could be pulled from a company that is discriminating.
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I have no idea. That's why we have lawyers.
 
Jack Hays said:
I limited my examples to Christian cases. Their actions were constant and universal. You must inhabit a different universe.
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Since you didnt provide that evidence, I'd have to say that my 'universe' is the real one.
 
Jack Hays said:
Noteworthy that Christians are attacked and ridiculed in Indiana during the same week when 150+ Christians are massacred in Kenya.
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"Noteworthy?" What gives them credibility among Christians?

Those Westboro jackwads like to claim they are the voice of Christianity as well.
 
j-mac said:
Then why'd Bill Clinton sign it into law, along with the support of some of the very liberals that are now screaming like stuck pigs?
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because clinton wasn't liberal and even liberals were anti gay back then

same reason he signed "DOMA" and "DA"DT
 
Montecresto said:
How is it that businesses that receive their licence to do business from the government being discriminated against by requiring them not to discriminate against the public?
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I guess, if you turn it around and think socialist ie the state grants permission to do business you would legitimately be able to argue that way. On the other hand, it is not the business that wants to withhold trade. It is the owner against his financial interests that for conscientious reasons thinks he may not for a reason he considers above the law. In this point he does have the Constitution on his side, as the Constitution has usually up to recently been interpreted. But, I suspect to see this go to a ruling by the Supreme Court. And then we will know, if the Constitution has changed.
 
Lursa said:
Since you didnt provide that evidence, I'd have to say that my 'universe' is the real one.
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Lursa said:
"Noteworthy?" What gives them credibility among Christians?

Those Westboro jackwads like to claim they are the voice of Christianity as well.
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Hate devours the hater.
 
Lutherf said:
I've got a question about all this.

Let's say that there are 10 bakeries in the local area. Nine of the bakeries are pretty generic but one specializes in Christian themed goods. They primarily make cakes, cookies and cupcakes decorated with angels, crosses and other Christian themed adornment. They don't have a sign on their door or anything that says "Christians Only" but it's pretty obvious what their business model is. Now a gay couple decides to get married. They have been very active in the "gay rights" movement and want to make a statement so they intentionally choose this particular baker to provide a cake for their wedding because they are sure that there will be resistance. Sure enough, the Christian baker turns the job down based on their religious convictions.

Now here's the question, in this scenario who is discriminating against whom?
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The gay couple and here is why.

All that bakery has to do is do what any other bakery does in this situation: Make the wedding cake and deliver it and get paid. Under no circumstances does the bakery have to get involved with the ceremony whatsoever.

This is almost similar to a hospital founded by an orthodox church refusing services to a gay because he/she was involved with a car accident.

Sorry. Doesn't make any sense. :shrug:
 
Gina said:
A short while ago Gov. Mike Pence held a press conference to say that he asking for legislation by the end of the week to clarify the RFRA law he signed last week. Key in his statement:


Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

Ok then. If that is the "fix" he signs, we're good to go and all arguments to the contrary, that the law was intended to permit the denial of service to anyone under the color of religious freedom, were in error.
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I messsed up on my post- sorry for that.
I disagree.


Christian activists: Indiana law tried to shield companies against gay marriage - The Washington Post

“VICTORY AT THE STATEHOUSE!” proclaimed a news release from Advance America, a conservative group whose leader, Eric Miller, was invited to join Pence at a private signing ceremony at the statehouse. “Christian bakers, florists and photographers should not be punished for refusing to participate in a homosexual marriage!”
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