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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    In this particular instance the courts aren't involved (yet) but they have been in the past and there is no reason to think they won't be in the future whether legislation like what we had here in AZ and what Pence recently signed are enacted or not.

    My personal opinion on this matter is that whether I agree with someone's position on an issue or not I don't like to see them bullied and that's exactly what I perceive as happening to a few small business owners. On the whole this seems to be a rather small issue made huge by activists and media. I simply haven't seen any evidence of widespread denial of services to homosexuals or blacks or Jews or anyone else but when one incident pops up it suddenly becomes a media firestorm.
    A court was involved with the New Mexico photographer and Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries, in the Oregon bakery case. I believe the bakery was boycotted to start with and then they closed their store front to operate from home. There was a year lag in the ruling, so the marketplace did have a chance there. I don't see that the courts jumped in to shut down the photographer before the case went to court. It makes sense that the marketplace backlash would occur long before any action by a lawsuit could take place.

    We don't hear about cases of discrimination except when someone who's been discriminated against speaks up. Those are people who are more militant or just reached their limit. You can't have it both ways. You won't hear about it until or unless the media gets involved.

    How many cases should there have to be before action takes place? Because it seems just a few people encounter discrimination, we should just ignore it? It must be widespread first? So those folks should just keep quiet and suck it up?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Yes they are. The bill protects freedom of religion which liberals are saying will lead to discrimination.
    He said it better than I can:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    You have the freedom to discriminate, you just can't run a discriminatory business. Besides which, there is no religious justification for denying service to gays.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    He said it better than I can:
    That is why I replied with: "No. It is not discrimination to choose not to participate in something you consider against your religion, regardless if someone is offering money to you or not. We do not give up our rights just because we choose to participate in commerce."

    If you can find anything in the Constitution that allows you to passively give up your rights by pursuing a means than I'd love to see it.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No. It is not discrimination to choose not to participate in something you consider against your religion
    Indeed, that is why one can put up signs that they do not wish to be affiliated with X, or form clubs or unions where they can only associate with like minded bigots.
    My views are my views, then there is the Christian view:
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    That is why I replied with: "No. It is not discrimination to choose not to participate in something you consider against your religion, regardless if someone is offering money to you or not. We do not give up our rights just because we choose to participate in commerce."

    If you can find anything in the Constitution that allows you to passively give up your rights by pursuing a means than I'd love to see it.
    Religious rights are tied to the practice of that religion. The government may not interfere in that. Operating a business is not akin to practicing a religion.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Indeed, that is why one can put up signs that they do not wish to be affiliated with X, or form clubs or unions where they can only associate with like minded bigots.
    It is not bigotry.

    Let's put it this way. What if an actress, who is unmarried and maintained her virginity because of religious beliefs, is requested by an adult film company to work as an actress in scenes that will bring her virginity to an end? Can she not claim religious freedom? Can she not refuse work?

    Really, if we extended this out, how can any contract worker or company refuse any offer of employment if they have the threat of discrimination hanging over them?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Religious rights are tied to the practice of that religion. The government may not interfere in that. Operating a business is not akin to practicing a religion.
    Religion is not just in church. Religion is an all day, every day kind of thing. The practice of religion does not end, not ever.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I've got a question about all this.

    Let's say that there are 10 bakeries in the local area. Nine of the bakeries are pretty generic but one specializes in Christian themed goods. They primarily make cakes, cookies and cupcakes decorated with angels, crosses and other Christian themed adornment. They don't have a sign on their door or anything that says "Christians Only" but it's pretty obvious what their business model is. Now a gay couple decides to get married. They have been very active in the "gay rights" movement and want to make a statement so they intentionally choose this particular baker to provide a cake for their wedding because they are sure that there will be resistance. Sure enough, the Christian baker turns the job down based on their religious convictions.

    Now here's the question, in this scenario who is discriminating against whom?
    Easy. The baker who decided to open their shop for business. They don't get to write their own rules just because they own a business. Sorry. They still have to comply with the law.
    Last edited by disneydude; 03-31-15 at 03:06 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Easy. The baker who decided to open their shop for business. The don't get to write their own rules just because they own a business. Sorry. They still have to comply with the law.
    What if the law said that you must put a Rush Limbaugh for President poster on your wall?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    What if the law said that you must put a Rush Limbaugh for President poster on your wall?
    There is no such law. Silly attempt at an analogy. Try something better.

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