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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    No. My examples were center mass hits that destroyed your position. You are in denial.
    LOL, sorry, they were fails and I explained why immediately after you posted them.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The constitution was written when women and blacks were still being discriminated. While an outstanding document, it has its limitations.
    I do not really see the problem in the Constitution, but in its general application. Applying the law is never easy and this is what we are seeing here. There is no question about whether or not the state must treat gays impartially. What that means might be discussed. To what extent this applies to third parties is not as clear, especially where would require intrusion into and restriction of the Constitutional rights of citizens by the state.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Ok, I'm back. Could you elaborate why you disagree and how that quoted text supports your disagreement?

    There was a specific reason why I made that comment about the fix.
    Ricky John Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche
    Micah David-Cole Fletcher
    I have no personal connection to these men. Ricky and Taliesin died and Micah was severely injured because they chose not to sit by silently, instead, they chose to confront hate. My condolences to their families for their tremendous loss and my best wishes to Micah for a full recovery and long, fruitful life.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The compromise reportedly agreed to by both sides today is along the lines I suggested. As best I can make out this early, a restaurant asked to provide food for a gay wedding probably cannot refuse, but a caterer cannot be compelled to provide servers and other support personnel who would actually participate.
    Could you elaborate on the comment in bold?
    Ricky John Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche
    Micah David-Cole Fletcher
    I have no personal connection to these men. Ricky and Taliesin died and Micah was severely injured because they chose not to sit by silently, instead, they chose to confront hate. My condolences to their families for their tremendous loss and my best wishes to Micah for a full recovery and long, fruitful life.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Ok, I'm back. Could you elaborate why you disagree and how that quoted text supports your disagreement?

    There was a specific reason why I made that comment about the fix.
    I was also claimed it mirrored the fed RFRA, which it did not.
    From what I have gleaned groups such as below had substantial input on writing for the original bill.

    “VICTORY AT THE STATEHOUSE!” proclaimed a news release from Advance America, a conservative group whose leader, Eric Miller, was invited to join Pence at a private signing ceremony at the statehouse. “Christian bakers, florists and photographers should not be punished for refusing to participate in a homosexual marriage!”
    Gov. Mike Pence signs 'religious freedom' bill in private

    Many in Indiana also see the legislation as a reaction to last year's unsuccessful push to enshrine a same-sex marriage ban in the state's constitution.

    Three of the lobbyists who pushed hardest for last year's gay marriage ban — Micah Clark of the American Family Association of Indiana, Curt Smith of the Indiana Family Institute and Eric Miller of Advance America — were among the 70 to 80 guests invited to the private bill signing.

    "It is vitally important to protect religious freedom in Indiana," Miller said in a statement after the bill signing. "It was therefore important to pass Senate Bill 101 in 2015 in order to help protect churches, Christian businesses and individuals from those who want to punish them because of their Biblical beliefs!"

    Then there is this
    Here’s how to use religious freedom laws to fend off a gay discrimination suit - The Washington Post
    A RFRA empowers a religious objector. Now, the gay wedding vendor has a stronger case because the RFRA explicitly demands that judges apply strict scrutiny. First, she has to demonstrate that serving a gay wedding would “substantially burden” her religious beliefs, and that her beliefs are sincere. “Substantial burden” sounds intimidating, but in practice, it is not a high bar.

    Then the court would have to consider if the gay discrimination law serves a “compelling interest” and if it is the “least restrictive means” to accomplish that purpose. In other words, the court has decide if it is vitally important to society that a religious person must obey this law in violation of her beliefs.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    No, you could not support your claim that religions have campaigned against marriage for adulterers, fornicators, and other sinners.

    Nor could you explain what makes Christian groups/spokespersons 'noteworthy,' as unfortunately the Westboro Church abominations are also 'noteworthy' yet do nothing but harm the credibility of Christianity.

    So...remind me again...how did I 'lose' anything? I supported all my statements....and you resorted to avoidance. I reminded you...reposted the quotes...several times. And yet...nada from you...just avoidance.

    Yeah, you might want to look up the definition of 'losing.'
    Your claims have all been refuted. I'm not sure what you're still talking about. The Catholic Church still does not allow divorced people to remarry in the Church, for example. The additional marriage is considered adultery.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    LOL, sorry, they were fails and I explained why immediately after you posted them.
    Again, your own universe.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Your claims have all been refuted. I'm not sure what you're still talking about. The Catholic Church still does not allow divorced people to remarry in the Church, for example. The additional marriage is considered adultery.
    That's how wrong you are. I acknowleged that in my responses, each time. I said they were an exception.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Could you elaborate on the comment in bold?
    Looks like there will need to be court cases to draw the line.

    From the Indianapolis Star coverage:

    ". . . The compromise legislation specifies that the new religious freedom law cannot be used as a legal defense to discriminate against patrons based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.

    The proposal goes much further than a "preamble" that was proposed earlier in the week, and, if it stands, would be the first time any protections against discrimination have been extended to gays and lesbians in state law. But it doesn't go as far as establishing gays and lesbians as a protected class of citizens statewide or repealing the law outright, both things Republican leaders have said they could not support.

    INDIANAPOLIS STAR





    Specifically, the new language says the RFRA does not authorize a provider including businesses or individuals to refuse to offer or provide services, facilities, goods, employment, housing or public accommodation to any member of the public based on sexual orientation or gender identity, in addition to race, color, religion, ancestry, age, national origin, disability, sex or military service.
    The proposed language exempts churches or other nonprofit religious organizations including affiliated schools from the definition of "provider."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #470
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's how wrong you are. I acknowleged that in my responses, each time. I said they were an exception.
    Most fundamentalist Christian denominations won't marry divorced people either.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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