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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    No worries. I've been under the weather, so if I don't get back to this today, I'm hoping I can tomorrow. I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you


    Or you Jack Hays. (Started Thursday night.)
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Nah man, there is a huge diff between a business discriminating and the state going out of its way to override decades-long city anti discrimination laws, targeting a single group in favor of a single religion in the process.

    That is what these "RFRA" are all about
    I was referring to the poster, chrom, not the issue itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    X i think it's worth pointing out that, despite all the attention the bakery got, very few accusations of discrimination boil down to refusing to participate in a gay wedding.

    So i don't see why his response is such a big deal. I mean he may be wrong but really...

    The vast majority of discrimination is in employment, housing, and small business service that does NOT cater weddings. None of that is disallowed under indiana law. That is the issue here
    Hmmmm, being discriminated against in jobs and housing seems like something that's a lot more important than someone not wanting to bake a cake. So why are we spending so much time talking about wedding cakes and photographers? One thing I believe absolutely to be true is that it's nobody else's business what anyone else (straight or gay) does. It's what makes me believe that nobody else has a right to dictate another person's actions. The problem is, though, when you (meant in the general sense) start demanding that others accept something or do something against their beliefs and will, you sacrifice being able to make the argument that others should do their own thing and leave you alone to do yours because now they can be all, "See? It does potentially impact my life." Now you'd be hard pressed to tell them, "it's none of your business".

    Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure I'm being as clear as I'd like.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Hmmmm, being discriminated against in jobs and housing seems like something that's a lot more important than someone not wanting to bake a cake. So why are we spending so much time talking about wedding cakes and photographers? One thing I believe absolutely to be true is that it's nobody else's business what anyone else (straight or gay) does. It's what makes me believe that nobody else has a right to dictate another person's actions. The problem is, though, when you (meant in the general sense) start demanding that others accept something or do something against their beliefs and will, you sacrifice being able to make the argument that others should do their own thing and leave you alone to do yours because now they can be all, "See? It does potentially impact my life." Now you'd be hard pressed to tell them, "it's none of your business".

    Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not sure I'm being as clear as I'd like.
    Why? I guess the same reason CNN talked for months about the missing plane, or michael jackson's death etc. It's just headline grabbing. There is an employment protection bill in the US house (it passed the senate if you can believe it) that is stalled because repubs want to add religious exemption. Well guess what, that would defeat the whole purpose.

    Some of these conflicts are unavoidable. You just gotta decide, should someone lose their job cause their boss has a religious objection to their sexuality? This fear led my gay uncle to marry and live a lie for sake of his boss' prejudice, then divorce and take another job across the country once he was able. Who the hell wins in that scenario?

    Ultimately what i harken back to when i hear "nobody has a right to dictate another's actions" is jim crow south. You know, desegregation meant forcing colleges, restaurants, bus drivers to do things against their will. Now you might say race, well, that's an identity not a behavior. This "rfra" makes no distinction between gay couples getting married and the teenager who is gay, never been in a relationship, and already has it bad enough cause he lives in ****ty indiana. All are targets

    Personally though, i would not want to do business for something like a wedding cake with someone like that, nor would i trust them to do it right. Strategically, the fallout has been more trouble than it's worth.

    I wish it never happened, so people stop using the bakery as a strawman and focus on the real problems like the hateful intent behind this indiana "rfra", the doctor who wouldn't treat the infant of the gay couple (depriving necessities), employment and housing discrimination. None of that is in the bible to my knowledge, so i see it as they're lying when they hide their bigotry behind their 'faith,' and i would think that would upset a lot of Christians like yourself who are gay friendly

    How am i asking someone to 'endorse'/'enable'/participate in my sexuality or my sex life when i go to buy milk? Or as the poster above said, i got in a car crash and the hospital won't treat me cause i'm gay? What does one have to do with the other?
    Last edited by chromium; 04-04-15 at 09:50 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Hate devours the hater.
    Hate? No, I dont allow much of that to poison my mind or body.

    And you have gone to attempting insult because you could offer zero to support either of the things you quoted.

    Gloating is a sin...I'm trying to avoid it but I'm not always successful
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You can deny all you want, but the evidence is clear.
    You were asked for it and and didnt produce it. You tossed out a couple of less-than-relevant convenient options that didnt address the question I had for your claim...which you again continue to bob and weave as you hope your original false claim is forgotten.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Hate? No, I dont allow much of that to poison my mind or body.

    And you have gone to attempting insult because you could offer zero to support either of the things you quoted.

    Gloating is a sin...I'm trying to avoid it but I'm not always successful
    Should be easy since you have nothing to gloat about after having lost the debate.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You were asked for it and and didnt produce it. You tossed out a couple of less-than-relevant convenient options that didnt address the question I had for your claim...which you again continue to bob and weave as you hope your original false claim is forgotten.
    No. My examples were center mass hits that destroyed your position. You are in denial.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I guess, if you turn it around and think socialist ie the state grants permission to do business you would legitimately be able to argue that way. On the other hand, it is not the business that wants to withhold trade. It is the owner against his financial interests that for conscientious reasons thinks he may not for a reason he considers above the law. In this point he does have the Constitution on his side, as the Constitution has usually up to recently been interpreted. But, I suspect to see this go to a ruling by the Supreme Court. And then we will know, if the Constitution has changed.
    The constitution was written when women and blacks were still being discriminated. While an outstanding document, it has its limitations.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Should be easy since you have nothing to gloat about after having lost the debate.
    No, you could not support your claim that religions have campaigned against marriage for adulterers, fornicators, and other sinners.

    Nor could you explain what makes Christian groups/spokespersons 'noteworthy,' as unfortunately the Westboro Church abominations are also 'noteworthy' yet do nothing but harm the credibility of Christianity.

    So...remind me again...how did I 'lose' anything? I supported all my statements....and you resorted to avoidance. I reminded you...reposted the quotes...several times. And yet...nada from you...just avoidance.

    Yeah, you might want to look up the definition of 'losing.'
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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