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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I would too, for real, and I think calling for and organizing boycotts or demonstrations would be a perfectly valid response (just as organizing in support of that business would also be).
    Exactly. If people want this particular 'freedom' back, then they can have it. And if it's that important to them, I dont see why they wouldnt post it.

    I mean, if you dont really want to serve blacks or Muslims, for ex., then you should have that 'freedom' back but you do have to post it, otherwise how will such people know to avoid your business?
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    You have the freedom to discriminate, you just can't run a discriminatory business. Besides which, there is no religious justification for denying service to gays. Stop blowing the religious freedom horn and just own the fact that you hate people that look / act differently than you.
    Meh, you're just opposite side of that very same coin.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Shocking, to Gov. Pence how many people can look past who another person sleeps with to befriend, love and care for them! LOL

    He needs to get out more.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Hi Gina. It's an interesting question. Do we believe people should be able to operate their business according to their own moral/ethical beliefs or does someone lay down those rights as soon as they start a business? I really don't know the right answer or if there even is one. There's a restaurant close by where I work that has Bible verses and sayings posted all over it. Should they be mandated to take that all down if someone says they're offended? The reality of life, I think, is that two very valid worthwhile rights can sometimes conflict and one must necessarily give way to the other and that's always going to cause tension.
    If they willingly apply to the state for a business license, they must abide by the guidelines and laws pertaining to that license. Or they have the freedom to choose some other business or state or place to open that business.

    That's why I suggest a business license that does allow for discrimination specifically....which must be displayed publicly so that the public is able to abide by that business's stated choices.

    (I mean I 'suggested' it for the purposes of discussion)
    Last edited by Lursa; 03-31-15 at 01:49 PM.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What is scary is that we think it good to discriminate against people for their religious practice and conscientious objection. That is something the US didn't even do, when it was a question of national security and draftees could refuse participating in war.


    Conscientious Objectors were allowed to not carry a weapon and not fight. My BIL was one such in Vietnam. He went in when drafted as a C.O. and served as an unarmed medic for a front line infantry unit.


    We do have a history of trying to take into consideration the honest objections-of-conscience held by citizens, whether religious or otherwise. Some reasonable compromise is not unjust.


    If a doctor declines to perform an abortion, he can refer the patient to another physician. If a wedding photographer doesn't want to participate in a gay wedding (or a Klan wedding, or a skinhead wedding, or a biker wedding, or a Black Panther wedding), let him refer the prospective customer to another service provider and no harm is done.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Exactly. If people want this particular 'freedom' back, then they can have it. And if it's that important to them, I dont see why they wouldnt post it.

    I mean, if you dont really want to serve blacks or Muslims, for ex., then you should have that 'freedom' back but you do have to post it, otherwise how will such people know to avoid your business?


    And honestly, why would you want someone to photograph your wedding or bake your cake if they objected to your union ANYWAY? Personally I'd be worried I'd get substandard service if I compelled them to do it against their conscience.
    Last edited by Goshin; 03-31-15 at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Conscientious Objectors were allowed to not carry a weapon and not fight. My BIL was one such in Vietnam. He went in when drafted as a C.O. and served as an unarmed medic for a front line infantry unit.
    I can see how even that would be offensive to them, or against their beliefs tho....because they would still be supporting the war and the people who were fighting.

    Which I believe is more the position of say, those bakers that refuse to back a wedding cake for gays....they are still supporting what they consider a sin.

    (I do not agree of course, but I'm making the comparison)
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Meh, you're just opposite side of that very same coin.
    Very true, I discriminate against people who discriminate.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And honestly, why would you want someone to photograph your wedding or bake your cake if they objected to your union ANYWAY? Personally I'd be worried I'd get substandard service if I compelled them to do it against their conscience.
    Another interesting thing may come to light if this hypothetical was tried: the *right* to choose whom you want to serve, to have that freedom, would be available to business owners....but would they take advantage of it?

    They would have the right to refuse service to groups they found offensive or that held beliefs that they were against. I do still believe there are seriously racist people in the US. And certainly those that would refuse to serve Muslims if they could. And obvoiusly, gays.

    I wonder *how many would* actually apply for that 'discriminatory exceptions' business license and choose to not serve blacks, or women, or Jews, or Muslims? Or even gays, once they realized how big that 'market' is and how deep those pockets are?

    If such discrimination were allowed, I wonder how many would actually take advantage of it?
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Hi Gina. It's an interesting question. Do we believe people should be able to operate their business according to their own moral/ethical beliefs or does someone lay down those rights as soon as they start a business? I really don't know the right answer or if there even is one. There's a restaurant close by where I work that has Bible verses and sayings posted all over it. Should they be mandated to take that all down if someone says they're offended? The reality of life, I think, is that two very valid worthwhile rights can sometimes conflict and one must necessarily give way to the other and that's always going to cause tension.
    Posting bible verses and discriminating against customers based on their race aren't the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Well, certainly the customer is not an N-word.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You know her?

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