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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

  1. #281
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The movement from laws against homosexuality to gay marriage has been accomplished in about 10% of the time it took to move from Appomattox to the Civil Rights Act, so no, I don't think think acceptance of some messiness at this moment is unreasonable. Especially since the number of people directly affected negatively would be minuscule.
    If it's 'wrong,' it's wrong. If gays deserve equal rights, then they do....period.

    And each individual deserves that respect and equality....IMO that may be part of the problem....not seeing gays as individuals....just seeing their 'sexual habits.' Yet, minority or not...the Const. specifically protects minorities from the majority.

    We now are on a tangent from bakeries and wedding photographers tho....because SSM does not infringe on anyone's religious freedom, while there are indeed 2 sides to 'serving' the sinners.
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  2. #282
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    If it's 'wrong,' it's wrong. If gays deserve equal rights, then they do....period.

    And each individual deserves that respect and equality....IMO that may be part of the problem....not seeing gays as individuals....just seeing their 'sexual habits.' Yet, minority or not...the Const. specifically protects minorities from the majority.

    We now are on a tangent from bakeries and wedding photographers tho....because SSM does not infringe on anyone's religious freedom, while there are indeed 2 sides to 'serving' the sinners.
    Sorry, but I can't discern a point to answer.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #283
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    As I posted earlier, Parker has this right, IMHO.

    ". . . If even a few Christians, Jews or Muslims understand marriage to be the sacred union of man and woman in the eyes of God, activists seeking a fresh definition shouldnít expect an immediate surrender. This doesnít justify the refusal of a wedding cake, the baking of which hardly qualifies as an endorsement, but nor does it justify charges of bigotry, as is often said of religious people struggling with profound social restructuring.

    This isnít an excuse for what is, in fact, discrimination by any other name. It is an attempt at compassion sorely missing from most discussions of this and other laws that try to carve out a tiny space for people whose religious beliefs are being put asunder. As gay activist and conservative author Andrew Sullivan wrote last year, ďWe should give them [religious believers] space.Ē
    Such as by, say, going to another bakery?
    The market ultimately may settle these matters before the courts do. Penceís latest move was prompted by corporate pressure as well as a few boycotts on state-funded travel to the Hoosier state.
    As Indiana moves to clarify its intent, the perception of discrimination will persist until RFRA laws are eliminated. This is the goal of many activists. But discrimination is a two-way street, and tolerance should apply equally to sexual orientation as well as to religious belief.
    Thereís plenty of cake to go around."
    You didn't answer my question. What should an LGBT person do if they encounter a company that won't do business with them for religions reasons?
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  4. #284
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    You didn't answer my question. What should an LGBT person do if they encounter a company that won't do business with them for religions reasons?
    The answer was in there. Go somewhere else.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #285
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    That interview should be a complete embarrassment to anyone who lives in Indiana. I mean really... how freakin' difficult is it answering a direct "yes" or "no" question? Amazing how different he came across (after the backlash) a few days later . And correct me if I am wrong, but the law that Clinton signed 20 years ago that he kept on referring to (ad naseum) has a major difference to his. It included businesses as "people." BIG difference.
    I know, huh? He just filibustered and turned green in response. I guess "Hoosiers don't discriminate" was his answer? And you are right, there are differences. The language is broad and there is room in there for problems. See my post #245 in this thread for the highlights, but the link has much more information.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

  6. #286
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    They are obligated to live their faith in all they do.
    And they can, the price is the advantage of an open business in a civilized and secure society.

  7. #287
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    And they can, the price is the advantage of an open business in a civilized and secure society.
    Religious conservatives may be on the wrong side of extremely rapid cultural evolution, but that does not delegitimize their human rights claim or their constitutionally protected freedom of religion.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    You didn't answer my question. What should an LGBT person do if they encounter a company that won't do business with them for religions reasons?

    To eliminate any confusion, the second sentence of my #284 was not directed at you. It was the answer to your question.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #289
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Why do you automatically assume the gay couple wouldn't want a Christian themed cake?
    or that a christian bakery would choose to illegally discriminate

    both things i also asked
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    Genetically human & human being is exactly the same thing.
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    homosexuality is objectively wrong, but because science tells me it is, not politics.
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    I'm not at risk for AIDS. Gays are.
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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The answer was in there. Go somewhere else.
    There we have it. Shut up and take it. Accept being treated as second class citizen for something they have no control over.

    Maybe those stores and services could put up a sign so that no LGBT person/couple would have to deal with the unpleasantness face to face?

    BTW, the answer was in your quoted comments, not in your own words.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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