Page 28 of 50 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 493

Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

  1. #271
    Tenacious
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,330

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    The difficulty is not with understanding, it's the predilection for the government involvement. And the signage, signage, signage.
    There's no difficulty with the signage...it serves both bigot and bigotee. It also protects both, even tho only one might desire it (those being informed before they have to deal with the bigots). The govt is actively protecting their right to association there, even if the business owners prefer to 'protect' their own right to association by associating with (personally informing) those it desires not to associate with. (yup, still funny).

    Still confusing for you, I know but basically it means that the govt involvement protects both's rights, one side that would desire it and one side that may or may not. And I agree with the govt protecting people's rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #272
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Over the edge...
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,738

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Then you should try to be more empathetic.
    I will be as soon as I will hear of the first instance of someone who has been not allowed to pray or go to church, temple etc. or professing their faith.

  3. #273
    Tenacious
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,330

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Religious conservatives cannot expect to legislate LGBT citizens out of existence or treat them abusively. LGBT citizens cannot expect religious conservatives to affirmatively participate in activities that offend their consciences. This will be messy at times and thorough equality will remain aspirational, but the fact is that both sides have legitimate human rights claims.
    I'm not sure about the bold. I believe that if they thought they could, they would. Many, but not most. But they would lose much of their less extreme voter base.

    And yes, ensuring equality can be messy....but how much longer should blacks have had to wait after the Civil War? The Civil Rights movement was 100 yrs later. 100 yrs later, Jim Crow was still alive and well in the South, as well as some other places.

    Yes, it was messy and even violent.....should the govt have just 'avoided' any action to move it forward and let the discrimination and injustices and literal dehumanization of a large group of people...citizens... in our country go on until that overt and legal racism just petered out on its own (IF it would have)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #274
    Tenacious
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,330

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    As I posted earlier, Parker has this right, IMHO.

    ". . . If even a few Christians, Jews or Muslims understand marriage to be the sacred union of man and woman in the eyes of God, activists seeking a fresh definition shouldn’t expect an immediate surrender. This doesn’t justify the refusal of a wedding cake, the baking of which hardly qualifies as an endorsement, but nor does it justify charges of bigotry, as is often said of religious people struggling with profound social restructuring.

    This isn’t an excuse for what is, in fact, discrimination by any other name. It is an attempt at compassion sorely missing from most discussions of this and other laws that try to carve out a tiny space for people whose religious beliefs are being put asunder. As gay activist and conservative author Andrew Sullivan wrote last year, “We should give them [religious believers] space.”
    IMO, hypocrisy does not deserve 'space' or tolerance. Because it is pure hypocrisy.

    There was no outrage, were no campaigns organized to end adulterers* and fornicators from marrying/remarrying, no legislation proposed challenging it, no 'family organizations' handing out pamphlets at the grocery store. Nor anyone speaking out against felons...murderers, rapists, pedophiles....marrying while in prison. No campaigns to keep athiests and the 'godless' from marrying.

    No, just gays.

    *The Catholic Church does forbid, still I think, adulterers to remarry in the Church but I'm not sure)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #275
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    60,893
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    I will be as soon as I will hear of the first instance of someone who has been not allowed to pray or go to church, temple etc. or professing their faith.
    They are obligated to live their faith in all they do.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #276
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    60,893
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I'm not sure about the bold. I believe that if they thought they could, they would. Many, but not most. But they would lose much of their less extreme voter base.

    And yes, ensuring equality can be messy....but how much longer should blacks have had to wait after the Civil War? The Civil Rights movement was 100 yrs later. 100 yrs later, Jim Crow was still alive and well in the South, as well as some other places.

    Yes, it was messy and even violent.....should the govt have just 'avoided' any action to move it forward and let the discrimination and injustices and literal dehumanization of a large group of people...citizens... in our country go on until that overt and legal racism just petered out on its own (IF it would have)?
    The movement from laws against homosexuality to gay marriage has been accomplished in about 10% of the time it took to move from Appomattox to the Civil Rights Act, so no, I don't think think acceptance of some messiness at this moment is unreasonable. Especially since the number of people directly affected negatively would be minuscule.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  7. #277
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    60,893
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    IMO, hypocrisy does not deserve 'space' or tolerance. Because it is pure hypocrisy.

    There was no outrage, were no campaigns organized to end adulterers* and fornicators from marrying/remarrying, no legislation proposed challenging it, no 'family organizations' handing out pamphlets at the grocery store. Nor anyone speaking out against felons...murderers, rapists, pedophiles....marrying while in prison. No campaigns to keep athiests and the 'godless' from marrying.

    No, just gays.

    *The Catholic Church does forbid, still I think, adulterers to remarry in the Church but I'm not sure)
    The campaigns of which you are apparently unaware were quite powerful and lasted centuries.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #278
    Tenacious
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,330

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The campaigns of which you are apparently unaware were quite powerful and lasted centuries.
    Really? I would like some sources for that, specifically for the institution of marriage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #279
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    60,893
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? I would like some sources for that, specifically for the institution of marriage.
    What would be your question?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #280
    Tenacious
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,330

    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The movement from laws against homosexuality to gay marriage has been accomplished in about 10% of the time it took to move from Appomattox to the Civil Rights Act, so no, I don't think think acceptance of some messiness at this moment is unreasonable. Especially since the number of people directly affected negatively would be minuscule.
    If it's 'wrong,' it's wrong. If gays deserve equal rights, then they do....period.

    And each individual deserves that respect and equality....IMO that may be part of the problem....not seeing gays as individuals....just seeing their 'sexual habits.' Yet, minority or not...the Const. specifically protects minorities from the majority.

    We now are on a tangent from bakeries and wedding photographers tho....because SSM does not infringe on anyone's religious freedom, while there are indeed 2 sides to 'serving' the sinners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Page 28 of 50 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •