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Thread: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    What does slack mean to you?
    Religious conservatives cannot expect to legislate LGBT citizens out of existence or treat them abusively. LGBT citizens cannot expect religious conservatives to affirmatively participate in activities that offend their consciences. This will be messy at times and thorough equality will remain aspirational, but the fact is that both sides have legitimate human rights claims.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Religious conservatives cannot expect to legislate LGBT citizens out of existence or treat them abusively. LGBT citizens cannot expect religious conservatives to affirmatively participate in activities that offend their consciences. This will be messy at times and thorough equality will remain aspirational, but the fact is that both sides have legitimate human rights claims.
    How does that work? What are you suggesting?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    How does that work? What are you suggesting?
    I'm suggesting that both sides stop provoking confrontations and stop claiming to be outraged. There is no programmatic fix.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I'm suggesting that both sides stop provoking confrontations and stop claiming to be outraged. There is no programmatic fix.
    So let discrimination just take place? No thanks, I prefer a society without it.
    My views are my views, then there is the Christian view:
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I'm suggesting that both sides stop provoking confrontations and stop claiming to be outraged. There is no programmatic fix.
    So when an LGBT person/couple approaches a business for a service or product and then are denied service due to religious religious belief said person/couple should?

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    So let discrimination just take place? No thanks, I prefer a society without it.
    There will inevitably be discrimination, either against LGBT or against religious conservatives. Both groups have legitimate human rights claims. The religious conservatives also have a constitutional claim.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There will inevitably be discrimination, either against LGBT or against religious conservatives. Both groups have legitimate human rights claims. The religious conservatives also have a constitutional claim.
    I fail to see how religious conservatives have a legitimate claim.
    My views are my views, then there is the Christian view:
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Of course the third world dregs are breeding like rabbits.

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    I fail to see how religious conservatives have a legitimate claim.
    Then you should try to be more empathetic.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    A short while ago Gov. Mike Pence held a press conference to say that he asking for legislation by the end of the week to clarify the RFRA law he signed last week. Key in his statement:


    Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Ok then. If that is the "fix" he signs, we're good to go and all arguments to the contrary, that the law was intended to permit the denial of service to anyone under the color of religious freedom, were in error.
    Much to do about nothing.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    So when an LGBT person/couple approaches a business for a service or product and then are denied service due to religious religious belief said person/couple should?
    As I posted earlier, Parker has this right, IMHO.

    ". . . If even a few Christians, Jews or Muslims understand marriage to be the sacred union of man and woman in the eyes of God, activists seeking a fresh definition shouldn’t expect an immediate surrender. This doesn’t justify the refusal of a wedding cake, the baking of which hardly qualifies as an endorsement, but nor does it justify charges of bigotry, as is often said of religious people struggling with profound social restructuring.

    This isn’t an excuse for what is, in fact, discrimination by any other name. It is an attempt at compassion sorely missing from most discussions of this and other laws that try to carve out a tiny space for people whose religious beliefs are being put asunder. As gay activist and conservative author Andrew Sullivan wrote last year, “We should give them [religious believers] space.”
    Such as by, say, going to another bakery?
    The market ultimately may settle these matters before the courts do. Pence’s latest move was prompted by corporate pressure as well as a few boycotts on state-funded travel to the Hoosier state.
    As Indiana moves to clarify its intent, the perception of discrimination will persist until RFRA laws are eliminated. This is the goal of many activists. But discrimination is a two-way street, and tolerance should apply equally to sexual orientation as well as to religious belief.
    There’s plenty of cake to go around."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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